I am sending out an open call to all former IHOP members who disagree with Jennifer LaClaire of Charisma Magazine and Mike Bickle, that IHOP is not a cult. Please look over Mike’s 7 Charistics of a cult and write a comment telling Mike and Jennifer how any or all of these characteristics affected you personally. I will post your responses in a future blog post.
Seven Characteristics of a Cult
Bickle defines a cult as, “a group that deviates from the doctrines and practices of historic Christianity and has an inordinate loyalty to one leader, whose beliefs are not found in Scripture (as affirmed by historic Christianity). Cult leaders, or false teachers, often believe that they alone possess the truth. If a group displays even one of these seven characteristics, they are a cult or have cultish tendencies.” Here are the seven characteristics of a cult as Bickle outlined them:1. Oppose critical thinking versus demanding that people think for themselves: Cult members must accept what the cult leader believes without ever challenging their doctrines. They do not want their members to think critically for themselves.
2. Dishonoring the family unit versus insisting on the biblical priority of the family unit: Children are taught to be more loyal to the leaders than to their parents. Women are taught to be more loyal to the leaders than to their husbands, and husbands are taught to accept this as normal behavior.
3. Isolating members and penalizing them for leaving versus helping them to do God’s will: Cults isolate their people from their families, the church and society. They reject any who leave and warn them, saying that they will be judged by God or will lose God’s best if they leave. People are taught to make lifelong commitments to the group. Some groups teach that their members must get permission before joining another ministry.
4. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders versus loyalty and connecting people to Jesus: Cults seek to connect their members to the cult leader and require loyalty to him instead of to Jesus. Loyalty is defined as not questioning the leader. It is very dangerous, when the leader cannot be questioned.
5. Crossing biblical boundaries of behavior versus walking in purity and financial integrity: Cults cross biblical boundaries of behavior especially in immorality and finances. False teachers can be detected by their covetousness and immorality (2 Peter 2:3-18).
6. Separation from the church versus a culture of honor towards the church: Cults separate from the wider church and operate with an elite spirit, believing that they alone have a special status with God. They have a polarized mentality of “us versus them.” They criticize the larger body of Christ and often claim to be the only ones truly saved. They view all other ministry and denominations as being in error.
7. Emphasizing special revelations that contradict Scripture versus loyalty to Scripture: Cults emphasize the special revelations of their leader that contradict the Scripture.
Saints, hear me. I’ve been very close to two cults and escaped both before falling into the deception headlong. It’s not always easy to recognize the fruit of cults at the surface. You have to dig down to the roots. Sometimes the cultish behaviors don’t manifest until you are integrated into the community. At that point, it’s harder to escape—but Jesus can set you free if you set your heart to go through the door into true Christianity. Amen.
Reblogged this on An Unknown Berean's Blog showing that IHOP is New Age and commented:
If you’re ex-IHOP, this story’s for you. Hope to hear from you – either hear or on Truthspeaker’s blog. It’s time for us all – ALL – to be Bereans. Acts 17:10-11
I know you are doing this for Ex-IHOP members, but my family just recently left a church further down on the totem pole under NAR (specifically SOMA and Mark Pfiefer). I prayed Psalms 25:5 and Hosea 4:6 a long time ago and the Lord has been teaching ever since. I read these things and can see most(not all) present in the church we left. When we brought up the fallacy of the 7 mountains we were promised the would be removed (they have pics for each of the churches to display) and they are still hanging in the church. The things that I now see from this article are the things that weren’t settling in my spirit. We would go to leadership about many things and Nothing that we ever said was considered or that worthy of a second look. We would attend other church’s functions and it was frowned upon. From the pulpit there was always an joking attitude of, “We are the best church in…” Over the past 5 years they had lost true prophets, elders, youth pastors, all because of disagreeing with Head leadership. All these people were those that listened to God and He spoke through them, They are all very anointed and I know w/o the shadow of a doubt that God was speaking through them. We were VERY involved and had hope til the very last that Jesus would have His way. I recently was able to have a quick chat with Nathan Morris and asked him one question that was burning in me for about 3 months about our former church and it was this, “What is the Gospel w/o the Glory”. He said “Exactly” and I knew at that moment that the Lord was making it clear to us that we needed to leave. I realized at that moment that even though our church was preaching the Gospel that the Glory and Anointing of God was not behind it and that even Satan knows the Gospel. He in fact knows it better than most of us, it has been on his mind every moment for the past 2,000 years! My heart aches for the Lord in knowing how much we have allowed the occult to infiltrate His church… I know in the midst of it He is calling out His chosen (eklektos) to raise up a standard, and come out from among them. These are scary yet exciting times that God has Chosen us to Live in.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences JC4life. I don’t know if you had a chance to read this yet, but i’m sure you will find some of what your church was involved in in this article: http://truthspeaker.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/a-response-to-chrarisma-magazines-defense-of-ihop/
I did read that. I get emailed every time you post something. ;) At that church I actually went through their school of ministry that was created by Mark Pfeifer and was accredited by C. Peter Wagner. I almost went through the school of prophecy too, but I read the first few pages of the first class and NONE of it settled in me! The Lord and Him alone is the Only one that I need to tell me that I have a prophetic gift! He taught every one of His true Prophets what makes us think He stopped? It was Wagner’s name and NAR the really lead me to your blog. I had a Godly woman (one that I mentioned early) instructed me to look up Dominionism. Needless to say I instructed my husband to do the same and what he uncovered (nothing more than you have) he was appalled at…
It is rather easy to demonstrate with Bickle’s own words – and his seminal Blueprint Propehcy – that IHOP meets many of the requirements of a cult set forth by Bickle himself.
http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2012/11/ihop-signs-of-cult.html
I agree Bill… looking for first hand accounts here!
1.) ihop will tell you to go back and check the scriptures, but because of the brainwashing/hypnotysing music and repetitive chanting that puts one in a receptive state…then mix in the stuff that is actually truth, a person IS NOT capable of of evaluating what is taught. The longer this goes on the “red flags” that have been ignored pop up less and less frequently. So it is a moot point when they challenge you to ‘check’.
2.)ihop isolates members into small groups of 6 to 10, housing them together, even from people in the same day ‘section’ Two bedroom apartments with 3 or 4 beds crammed into a room is the norm (been there, done that). Consider what is going on in KC with apartment blocks being bought up, so the ihoppers will all be in one place. The monastic atmosphere, which is actually touted and ENCOURAGED breeds separatism. The elitist doctrine told us that our parents just don’t get it. WE understand you. When my brother or my dad had misgivings, ihop surrounded me – oh they don’t understand this, they are locked in dead religion, those are just darts from the enemy etc. Then you get propped up as part of this new cutting edge thing God is doing, and of course, we had our measuring sticks on how much more we love God than they did. It is interesting to see what happens when ihoppers marry, the Deaton case of course, being an extreme. The woman is more often than not left home with children and cut off from the rest of ihop, or is out working so the man can continue HIS ihop ‘experience’. I have seen this ad infinitum. Somebody gets married and all of the sudden the Mrs. just disappears off the grid.
3.) #2 above shows some of the isolation techniques. I have seen people kicked out of different ihops, and we are told they are messed up, or we ‘lost’ them, this is if ANYTHING at all is said. If you have some questions or a disagreement, all of the sudden a section leader or someone higher up calls you out for a meeting. Responsibility is taken away while you ‘get through this’. This is especially hard on people in a works based system like ihop. All of the sudden you are no longer on the platform, another person is immediately called in to take your sets or team position. Several times I have seen teachers changed out right in the middle of a class series, so some one more in tune with the ihop spirit can finish teaching the classes.
4.) again #3 above outlines some things I have seen happen when you question something. I especially recall 3 interns in a single track being tossed out for questioning what was being taught, one time for not turning in his ‘dream journal’.
5.) I cannot say I have ever seen greed at ihop, EVER. Countless time I have myself or seen others just give away what they have, money, cars, clothing, laptops, even a house!- you name it. BUT there is an IRS regulation on how money given to a ministry is supposed to be used; for instance you cannot give $100 to 1st Baptist and tell them it must be used on the building fund, you MUST write a check to the 1st Baptist building fund instead. It cannot go to 1st Baptist and have building fund written on the memo line either. So when you support an ihopper, you are told to write the check directly to ihop and put the checkk or cash into a provided envelope with the details on the outside, this is illegal, but we were told to tell our ‘partners’ this procedure. Then once a week we would receive a check from ihop labeled ‘missionary support’ on the tear off portion. If anyone looked at ihop’s books (which has NEVER happened) it would look like ihop was paying us, and they issued a 1099 at the end of the year to back up that claim (which basically removes the ‘clergy exemption’ from the little ihopper). In fact before the offering people are told that it is the goal of ihop to support all of their ‘missionaries’. When this is not the case. To be eligible to have ihop provide this ‘service’ you must have a 40 hour PR commitment on your sacred trust (further isolating you from the world). Other-wise it goes into the general offering.
6.) #’s 2,3 and 4 above detail this point. There is indeed an elitist spirit and works based mentality. Along with a separation of the dead religion of your parents (mike bickle) and how they are radically changing the way ‘church’ is done and the way people see it (mike bickle again)
7.) Just read anything Bickle, Humphrey, Hood, etc etc have written, or take a visit (if you dare) to the ‘prophelie’ rooms.
-CG
thanks Chad…. I’ve been trying to get the press to delve into the finances for a long time!
Even with Bickle’s own definition of CULT (which isn’t actually complete and defined in such a way that IHOP won’t meet the definition…it’s silly to use a cult-leader’s definition of cult as the litmus test for his own cult!?!?)
However… that said… here’s my comment as an ex-KCF-MVF-MCF-IHOP member and former accountant who saw the behind the scene lies and misrepresentations about $$$ and was canned when questioning them. (and who wishes to remain anonymous)
Everything IHOP and Bickle do are very, very subtle mind control methods…. here are examples using his own definition!!!
1. Oppose critical thinking versus demanding that people think for themselves….Critical thinking is minimized by having many, many, meetings where the leaders talk at you in convincing and manipulative ways… sitting in a 24/7 prayer room being wooed by music and repetitive mind altering “prayers” and IHOP students are “REQUIRED” to attend! Creating a “Friendly” environment that accepts young adults; who are most impressionalbe & susceptible to being mind-controlled… there is no “DEMAND for thinking for themselves and almost no arena for discussion and intellectual wrestling” only open minds getting fed the KOOL-AID…
2. Dishonoring the family unit versus insisting on the biblical priority of the family unit… Again very, very subtle… there may be no OVERT command of dishonoring of the family, but when Young Minds are manipulated to believe live out the “garbage” being fed by Bickle & IHOP leaders—it creates division because parents recognized the LIES and when they confront their children with the deception, it creates animosity and division!!!
3. Isolating members and penalizing them for leaving versus helping them to do God’s will…. This is the entire purpose of IHOP University (which is unaccredited – lead by amateurs and should be outlawed from using the term “university”)…. and helps those do God’s will as long as it means going out and evangelizing IHOP and Bickle!!! It’s very subtle, but it’s in IHOP/Bickle’s interest to send out the current followers to get more followers… although there are many examples of those students who have been penalized for not following IHOP rules i.e., not going to the Prayer Room enough, etc. NOTE: IHOP’s biggest target group is young adults who have no direction in life and that’s the revolving door to keep this cult machine running!!!
4. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders versus loyalty and connecting people to Jesus…. I can vouch personally for getting canned when I questioned Bickle’s upfront misrepresentation of how $$$ were being used from Normal weekly tithes/offerings, revenue from tape and book sales and revenue from Big Conferences… He flat out lied about how the $$$ were being used!!! Just one of many examples is how he said he and all staff was all paid the same based on their family size…however, he continuously used church funds for his personal expenses over and above his salary…he also received gifts of cash and things which he kept and didn’t turn over to the general fund of the organization as is stipulated by ECFA (Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability) which they at that time refused to participate in (they still may not, but I don’t know). Additionally, there are dozens of examples I know personally of people who have been reprimanded, shunned, etc for disagreeing with or questioning Mike Bickle!!!! He demands absolute loyalty absolutely!
5. Crossing biblical boundaries of behavior versus walking in purity and financial integrity…. See above about Financial Integrity… also note that Mike’s wife, Diane Bickle owns Glad Heart Realty, a few blocks from IHOP in downtown Grandview, which financially gains from the success of IHOP… my guess is 90%+ of her business is due to people moving to/from Grandview, MO to participate in this madness!!! And due to the revolving door of this place… the churn & burn of young adults and young families… it is quite lucrative… There are 2 reasons people move, either they are disillusioned or they want to spread the madness!!! Speaking of purity… do I need to say more than Paul Cain or Bob Jones, who are still upheld as foundational? I also might mention Mike’s right hand man in the late ’80s, early ’90s Jeff Grisamore (who is now a Missouri State Representative) who fondled at least 3 girls who were personal friends of mine…taking advantage of his “power status” in the church as Mike Bickle’s right hand man… how come the “prophets” didn’t see him or call him out?
6. Separation from the church versus a culture of honor towards the church… again, very subtle… this was especially the case in the past, may still be true where there’s a subtle seed planted that IHOP is “where god is” and it’s the “happening thing” “new expression of christianity”… now he’s been more into spreading the 24/7 prayer movement into local Kansas City churches…(maybe elsewhere too, i don’t know) because they are enamored with IHOP success and Bickle’s charisma… and that too is a big thing…he has a charismatic personality…which is amazing to watch, but nonetheless not due to some anointing… just skilled mental manipulation!!!!
7. Emphasizing special revelations that contradict Scripture versus loyalty to Scripture…. um….there are so many examples!!!! all these “paradigms” and “expressions” and “joseph-this” and “bride-that” and “Ezra-this” and all these newly coined “special revelations” they come up with…. there is no orthodoxy in anything they do!!! Their entire prophetic movement is one HUGE SPECIAL REVELATION!!!!!
So, even using Bickle’s own flawed, incomplete, and self-serving definition of a cult they are GUILTY of BEING A CULT!!!!!
thank you mac…. using Bickle’s own definition to prove they are a cult is my entire point! how come no one hAs ever filed a police report about the finances? i’ve gotten other comments from insiders about financial impropriaty!
Chad/jojahpine: heard comment about $200,000.00 embezzlement, will the young lady come forward that knew about that endeavor please, didn’t you get let go or fired for talking about it? Been definately treated like dung when visited number of IHOP’s (not part of the “chosen frozen” or the elite mentality). Once you’ve corrected them or any cult like church for that matter, you’re bad mouthed, thrown out, watched, water thrown at you etc., typical of all demonations (not miss-spelled).
Editor of Charisma has been on the church correction list since March 2000, hardcore! Noticed when the new editor took over (I’d have to look at the date of the issue), WHAT A SELL OUT! The man who took J. Lee Grady’s place. He was giving acolades to ministries that have been exposed by news, Trinity Foundation in Dallas, TX, InPlainSite.org, Bill/Jackie Alnor, rickross.com, myself and God knows how many others; like Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Bill/Jackie Alnor (made me want to puke, vomit and throw-up). Stupid christians are their purchasers, keeps their ministry in jobs; they cater to keep in business; definately compromise; sold out for a pay-check.
Still reading, they don’t know to go to the police, State Attorney General, Mayor, Governor, Lt. Governor, Secretary of State, Better Business Bureau, Senate of that State, House of Representative, Head of IRS, State of IRS department also, (same when children are molested=lawsuits, need to do the same as with finances); hit them in the pocket book or hopefully God will do an Jeremiah 23:all and Ezekiel 34: he’ll scatter the sheep, you can only HOPE!
True prophetic get thrown out, ask to leave, they’re not invited to be on platform or speak except for those who backslap it with the false flattery group (we’ve seen the fruit of that)! Arthur Katz in his written works: Prophetic Call confronts what they’re doing, excepting false vs. true and the old! So, does Leonard Ravenhill in his written works=excellent teachers.
Beyond Grace Reports on Bickle’s Message: IHOP: Signs of a Cult
Above article listed on this site, on comment line is “definition of a cult”, that Mike got years ago, he’s been on a hardcore church correction list since 2000 (along with Rick Joyner, Paul Cain, Charisma, over 250 heads of church leadership, EVEN when didn’t agree with that they were doing)! Very gifted apostolic type gave me the definition when asked!
Another comment from mac that was posted on another thread:
My experience is that most people leave that horrific place devastated, crushed and confused! I’d love to know specifically the divorce (or murder) rate of young couples married there…b/c I personally know dozens (including Mike Bickle’s sister and several former staff members) whose marriages couldn’t handle the “experience” of that place…even though they were Prophesied over that they would have these wonderful marriages and Mega-Ministries!!!! Inspect the fruit!!! It is the most amazing experiment in mind manipulation!!! (I can hear Bickle on his deathbed…”Just Kidding! I was just curious how far I could manipulate the lemmings!”) It’s just a revolving door of young adults who keep financially feeding the machine (IHOPU is like $6,000 a semester…for an unaccredited “university”…SERIOUSLY?)…look at the leaders and past leaders still associated with it making money off the machine… one example is Bob Hartley who hires these IHOP students at relatively low wages to work at his commercial office cleaning business… it’s sick!
Want to know about the $$$….
The Corporation that owns all the stuff is called Friends of the Bridegroom, Inc. of which Mike Bickle is President… Look it up in Business Entity Search on the Missouri Secretary of State website at: http://www.sos.mo.gov and you can see all the public documents, Annual Reports, Corporate Officers etc., then look up Friends of the Bridegroom, Inc. on the Jackson County Missouri Real Estate Tax Site to see how much they own at http://www.jacksongov.org You’ll find Diane Bickle’s Glad Heart Realty Building at 724 Main Street is owned by Friends of the Bridegroom, Inc. (No impropriety there!!!) Also look up Bickle on the Jackson County Missouri Real Estate Tax site to see how much property the Bickle Family Owns… Mike, Diane, Paul & Luke… very interesting if you want to know how this money machine works….Million$$$$ in real estate owned and controlled, not by an elected Board of Directors, but by Mike Bickle!!!!! The Not-for-Profit world is very lucrative indeed!!!!!
I had assumed, but did not know for sure, until now, that it actually went this deep, thanks Mac
CG
Mac,
This is a little off subject, but since you were there for so many years, were there other red flags for you prior to the financial thing which caused your discharge? I would really like to hear more of your testimony.
You all write about same concerns that I have – I also got so sad and shocked when searching for the truth about “manifistations” and listened to Mikes message:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=VoGrrcCe0Rc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVoGrrcCe0Rc&gl=NO
(both parts) and did not find any biblical hold on his arguments, only his 30-40 years of observing as a proof.
When he also are able to say that maybe 80% of the manifistations are fake, but he would not stop any because of those 20% that might be a real touch from God…Could not God meet this people if the fake/demonic would be stoped? (And a real touch from God, does it really come through manifistations)
To me this is a sign of very poor leadership.
1.how can He desern what is real and what is fake, and make a laugh about those he think is fake (loud shouts) (belitle from the pulpit the ones in his own congregation doing this – from this video)
2. He alowes any manifistation, calling “those who are not of the holy spirit are from thir own flesh”
3. To me it sounds like he sais the evil one is not in any of this….how can it be?
- I think this worship and seeking, open up for bad spirits, and the leadership do not see this. So they are surprised everytime some witness that their time there was devastating.
Ihop is without real sheparding, not a healthy place for youth without desernement on their own. Like blind people leading blinded people…
You would think that a ‘prophet’ surrounded by a whole passel of ‘prophets’ AND 30-40 years observing(?) Would be able to discern when a demon was manifesting, and put a stop to it, so it is just more BS. I recall Bob Jones and the claim that his hands would turn purple in the presence of sin, you’d think he’d have to wear gloves even when alone. Someone refresh my memory, which ‘prophet’ claimed they could see the sin written on someone’s forehead?
Jesus said it is an evil generation which seeks a sign, this ‘prayer generation’ is seeking signs and power so single-mindedly, that they will accept anything.
It is concerning the amount of time and energy spent to try to scrape up “dirt” that I have found this website and the ppl associated have been trying to do. I cant think of ANY Biblical reason why the Lord would have someone do so! This is not about seeking for any truth, this is in fact, bitterness, anger, hatred , gossip, slander, division and lies…..which are not from the Lord, that is for certain! All of the cautions about “out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks”….have been thrown away in attempts to tear apart a ministry and a person or persons. I have to think that it is demonic! It isnt from Jesus that people are doing and writing and saying these things! There are absolutely NO scriptures that would justify the kinds of things I am reading here or give approval for doing so! I thought at first this was a site to help, but I was 100% wrong and now I see it…and the other sites that are similar for what they really are. I believe that the Lord would not approve or be pleased with this kind of behavior from His people at all….and I can write that and believe that based on many of the Holy scriptures! Please rethink what you are doing and why you are doing this….what are the real , underlying motives and intentions. If this is about gaining attention and seeking for importance and “being right”, then that isnt a healthy place to be in! This website could have been a place for interesting, healthy conversations and to have questions answered for genuinely hurt and confused people and that would have been a really good thing. I want to make sure that I am understood…this isnt about “defending” anyone or any ministry….but it is about what it right according to the Word of God. Attempting to hide behind anything to bring someone or something down is not right before the Lord. Gossip, slander and accusations thrown out for everyone to see in a public forum of any kind isnt pleasing to God! Not according to His Word. Praising and encouraging ppl in their bitterness and anger and lies…and I have seen and known several total lies from things I have read here….and putting out a “call” to ex-Ihop-ers is not godly or right. It is coming from an unhealthy place that could be from the evil one….since it most clearly is NOT from the Lord Jesus!
Also….if I were to mention “fruit”….what is the type of “fruit” that is growing and coming forth from this website recently? It isnt healthy fruit…it certainly doesnt line up with the characteristics of “The Fuit of the Holy Spirit:” that are listed in the Bible! There is a verse:
“Let God be true and every man a liar”…..and that is what I think of when I think about trying to tear down a person or a ministry in this way.
Diane… if you believe that why do you keep coming back and reading posts and making long comments? And how do you explain Matt 23 and the fact that Paul rebuked false teachers, and named names? Like IHOP says… this is not for everyone.
Here is my take… Scripture states that… “God/Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever”
So when these men (leaders) tell us that they have been given “new revelation” about scripture that is contrary to scripture, even stating that “God is going to change the face of Christianity in this generation”, that simply does not hold true to the scriptures. They make God/Jesus out to be a liar because if God/Jesus never changes then His word doesn’t change and He has already established the course of action in His word.
It is pretty simple, as I have stated too many of these “others” who come to my door and try to evangelize, “If they really knew the scriptures, they wouldn’t be following the path they are on”.
I say the same thing to those who follow after the “signs and wonders” camp, the “hyper-charismatic” camp, if you really knew the scriptures for yourself, instead of following a man-made-vain-imagination theology, you wouldn’t be involved.
Jesus was VERY CLEAR, “those who seek after signs and wonders are of a perverse generation”. Don’t get mad at me, I didn’t say it, JESUS did. Are you seeking after “signs and wonders?”
TH
I would like to know why everyone thinks that those of us who are genuinely concerned in “false teachings” or “ministries” that operate outside of “the Lords and Apostles teachings” are “hurt, bitter, angry, hate , gossip, slander, division and lies” that is causing the concern?
I was involved in this stuff and left not because of hurt, anger, etc. but because while in genuine prayer about what I was discerning, the red flags that I had and the “feelings” in the pit of my stomach, and REALLY asking the Holy Spirit for the truth, He answered through scripture and I left out of obedience to HIM.
Diane! In my healing prosess, I find it helpfull to read about others testimonies that have come to the same conclution as I have. To finally find out that I am not manifesting religious spirits because I ask some critical questions. To find out that I didn’t have to change to their ways, but should have hold fast to what my parents had told me from my childhood. I am so terrible sorry for all my accusations towards the former generations that were like real sheppards. And off course, when you have touched the fire and been burned it is just natural to want others to stay away – I would have felt I was an evil, ignorant person if I pretended like nothing ever happen in my 15-20years of Kcp/Toronto/ihop/bethel influence!
Diane,
I certainly do not hate anyone at KC, Atlanta, Ft.Mills, DC, Richmond or any of the other various hops. Since these, according to scripture are false and unbiblical, therefore NOT VALID CHRISTIAN MINISTRIES, I WOULD like to see the facades torn down and the rotten foundation behind this exposed. There is no division here, since they are teaching a false gospel, so how can any of us be causing division? This is a short reply, because I don’t think you will pay this any heed, regardless of how much detail is gone into and would just be a repeat of what has been laid out for you many times before. People are heading into hell by rejecting the truth and a warning MUST be given.
CG
Diane cracks me up in that yes, she is coming back and reading the “dirt”. Diane they NEED to be exposed, obviously you haven’t researched the enough or read enough; GET UNBRAINWASHE AND THINK FOR YOURSELF. Order the churches 501c3 (non-profit) and see what they own, worth, buildings, land, excess. You don’t question where the money goes and the whole BIBLE isn’t being taught and it’s focused on the “youth”. I’m not sure why you defend to the death? I used to be a self-righteous, prideful christian just like yourself. FINALLY WOKE UP! Good day to do that. Left this type of cult, so been exposing ever since. It’s about the money boys and you keeping them in their lifestyle.
Also, regarding: Jennifer LaClaire of Charisma Magazine, what are her ties with IHOPrayer that as a writer she didn’t do both sides of the story. What is her connection, relation, relative, is tied in by marriage or when worked in corporate who they slept with to climb corporate business ladder. Be interesting to see the tie/connection for her not to expose IHOPrayer as the cult they are and Charisma allowed article to be published, how sad!
Yes, truthspeaker, a lot of people left any type of cult like this devestated, wandering in the desert for years and going to hell over their pastor/church until something happens like you being wonderful and posting and anyone else who does. Divorce rate was so ramphant in my former cult also, they didn’t care about those people or their marriages or their families and to tolerate that as in #2, women ignore their husbands who are the children’s father and provider and women are discontent with their homes/lives because of movements like this (When You and Your Mother Can’t Be Friends by Victoria Secunda is #1 reason going after church to lose their 501c3, along with the Jezebel Spirit teaching by Noel Alexander, Tim Davis and John Paul Jackson (even though they might be off or have gone off, the teachings at the time, were dead right) along with Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, and Toxic Faith and Churches That Abuse, Marjoe Documentary; Lord, Save Us From Your Followers-Dan Merchant and the other 5 pages have on church abuse list! THAT’S WHAT GOT ME HEALED UP and PEOPLE WHO had been in the killing fields and bludgeoned by the pastors/church/leadership/people that call themselves “christian”! THANK YOU JOANNE, KEEP IT GOING!
This blog might save someone from killing themselves over the church to know others have gone through the same thing, or gets informed!
Thank you R…
that is why I keep it going!
I am glad true colors manifested, cause I know I was a bit harsh on another thread on here towards (in my opinion) an IHOP supporter of the BP. I am human and make mistakes, but to belittled by Diane and then to see belittlement towards a kid coming out and speaking (of what I think, very personal information) of his IHOP experiance was out of line.
People are gonna support deception to the T, unfortunately I’ll let my emotions get too involved and I’ll lose my patience (like I did on that other post) but I know my intentions are for people to see the Truth. You can lead people outside and visibly show them that the sky is blue but in their minds they’ll see it as purple…only God can open their minds. NOT saying to give up on them, not at all, we need to continue to speak out, ultimately though only God can pull the wool off of their eyes.
Keep fighting the good fight! God bless!
Heya i am for the first time here. I came across this board and
I find It really useful & it helped me out much.
I hope to give something back and aid others like you aided me.
“This blog might save someone from killing themselves over the church to know others have gone through the same thing, or gets informed!”
This has been my burden for a dozen tears or so, when I realized how deeply the Babylonian infection had spread at IHOP. & the widespread destruction it had accomplished. So Sad! Mike, and his followers are deceived, and blinded, and they won’t repent. They see all of those who beg them to return to the simple Gospel of Paul as Persecution….The MARK of a cult also.
I recommend ANYONE doubting their Cult status, to Google ” IHOP KC Heresy Cult “, & peruse the hundreds of insights from truly Biblical Christian ministries, & the testimonies from the mouths of the refugees who have fled for their lives.
The Deaton Murder is tragic, but it has accomplished a focus on IHOP Nation-wide, and now dig deeper as to the WHY? and HOW? while they were deeply involved in a “church” that should have Pastored them, and been able to see some hints of the troubled souls of all involved.
From prior discussions, I know that my opinion won’t be the popular one here, so I won’t even go there at all. Why to I come back, honestly I’m trying to keep an open mind about all this as a person active (but not on staff in any way) in the IHOP-KC community, I can flat out say that I personally haven’t seen any of this at all … but for me being out here at IHOP-KC has been a wonderful blessing.
Do I tithe to Forerunner Christian Fellowship, yes .. it’s my church (and the tithe goes to the storehouse).
Have I ever been forced to go to a meeting, NEVER (that’s not the case a other mainstream and non-mainstream).
Have I ever been told to NOT think for myself never, and as a matter of fact, I find the prayer room to be a great place to read and study; I go approximately 3 times a week … why, not more, because honestly I don’t have time … I have 6 kids and a full time job. I enjoy going on Monday at 6am to pray for people in the marketplace, at 6am on Tuesday to pray for people to be rescued from human trafficking, and 6am on Thursday to pray for media and the arts. I could go other times, but that’s it for me, and no one is offended or has ever approached me otherwise about that.
We have ALWAYS been told that our family is #1. My first responsibility is to my wife and kids; if I started to be pulled in other directions than that, I would be the first to say it’s time to go (it caused a big rift in my family due to a former church saying church was #1).
Isolation – far from it … as a matter of fact, just in the past couple of months, Mike literally spoke a message that it was time for (and I have to phrase this correctly to not get flamed) people to begin to see if the Lord has them in a season to move on. I have NEVER heard of a cult leader saying to someone who is wholeheartedly committed to them to leave.
I’m just not seeing so much of this negativity … maybe it is here, but for me and my wife and children, we have experienced wonderful growth in the Lord and encountering Him since moving here.
I would just like to ask a very open and albeit “pointed” question … has anyone here personally (AND privately) gone to Mike Bickle, Allen Hood, or any of IHOP-KC leadership and spoken to them one on one about THIS issue and the concerns that are being stated here. If you have not, then really, you are disobeying a direct command from Jesus. If you have spoken with Mike directly (about this issue at this time in this hour … I’m not saying KCF or some of the stuff in the past was good or bad, but I’m literally talking about TODAY) and you still disagree then you have every right in the world to be open and honest about your thoughts. I would just like to have someone here, even truthspeaker yourself, meet with Mike personally one on one, and flat out get this out there in person.
rick – I am glad to hear your experience! And I believe you! :) I was in a mission center with same focus on worchip, prophetic, intercession, spiritual warfare as in Ihop for 15 years overseas, but have been influenced through books and the later years through the streaming. It was not until me and my family left for mission we started to see how our experiences in this invirement had formed in a negative way when it come to understand unbelievers and lead them to Christ. We had wonderfull years while still in the movement, but felt like strangers to many of our good friends when coming back after 2 years on the mission field. Suddenly we realized that critical questions and frustraitions are not really welcomed in this settings, and at some insidenses we were accused for betraiel when love for our friends draw us to warn against some so called angelic revelations. I would never believed it would ever happen between us and our friends. We still are able to praise God for all the good He has done in the midst of lots of unhealthy things, but the pain of realizing that mybe not everything that I felt/learned or shared was by the Holy Spirit…
My eyeopener was the story of Jesus, just baptized, full of the Holy Spirit was driven into the dessert – and who turned up with his fantastic promisses of authority and welth…well, I know you know. So even if I was told that Satan can never come when I pray in Jesus name…ends there in that story. I had been decieved with loads of “roastbiff and red carped prophesies”, fooled to believe they were true. But all they did was to puff me up to be some kind of super christian…I would prophesy, lead worhip (so anointed they said) suddenly asking my self – where is the fruit of the spirit? There is plenty feelings and emotion – I used to call them touch of the Holy spirit, some were, but some were not….and what was that then? My flesh? Or bad spiritual influence? Both? I am still trying to sort it out, and I have not lost my faith in A supernatural God and his son and the Holy Spirit – but everything became a mess, especially after the influence of “the bridal paradigm, harp and bowl and extatic worship” -years.
So please be carfull for what you open yourself up to, or what you are challenge to pursue. Not all is bad (my oppinion) but alot has a bad foundation. (I really question the prophetic history in the movement, and from there it is to much disturbing stuff for me)
I hope you took the time to read my testimony! My greeting to you is what keeps me going: “The eyes of the Lord is searching the whole earth to fully support those whose hearts are fully after his”(Cronicles somewhere, isn’t it?) Halleluja! May God bless you in your search for the truth, as well as your life as you walk in allready prepared deeds!
Blessings from Europe :)
I am sorry Truthspeaker for all my wrong spelling. I hope my english is understandable enough… You have my permission to edit :)
“I would just like to ask a very open and albeit “pointed” question … has Has anyone here personally (AND privately) gone to Mike Bickle, Allen Hood, or any of IHOP-KC leadership and spoken to them one on one about THIS issue and the concerns that are being stated here. If you have not, then really, you are disobeying a direct command from Jesus.”…Rick
Congratulations Rick: You have drawn your family into a cult, and your justification is that it fundamentally, it feels good and you are blessed. I would implore you to use the Word of God as your compass; not your feelings. The heresies practiced there are so numerous they are astounding; & yes, they may feel very nice to some. I’m too sick to go into some of them; grieved and obvious. LIES.
My reasoning from your ideas, is that you have never been born again, by the Holy Spirit otherwise His conviction would be upon you so much that you too would be grieved, and sick because of the deceptive Religious activity there: Maybe you are overwhelmed.
As a matter of fact, Yes, I have talked to Mike Bickle somewhat about the issues there, but no real issues are ever allowed to be confronted with Mike,; Mike is insulated totally from ALL detractors, ever since the Ernie Gruen affair in the early 90s, & is generally unapproachable.. He is like the Godfather; unapproachable, and convinced that ANY Criticism is from Satan to discourage the higher good.
Hundreds have attempted to do so; to beg Mike to repent & consider the Gospel of Paul again; He refuses.
Through experience, testimony, and Mike’s written & published doctrinal stances, videos & articles, HUNDREDS of Christian ministries, who have discerned the extreme errors at IHOP!. have too taken the obvious stand; Mike Bickle has descended into heresy; Hundreds., We DO have a compass, & especially the Word of God to compare the guiding stars.
This is why I see your Delusion. Have you read the testimony posted here? Have you considered the Roman Catholic Satanic connection with the Mystics who were devoted to Jezebel Mary & her father, being exalted to the status of the Word of God?….that Mike promotes & adores.
These all, were devoted to the wicked Pope who claims the sole headship of Christ? on Earth,..and her Priests, who only are anointed to magically transform the elements to the ACTUAL blood and ACTUAL body flesh ?…IHOP adores these wicked , ALL of whom have never been born again from above , possibly like yourself. I hope not.
I am not trying to put you down; I simply want you to wake up & realize your deception, & live. People become what they believe. The truth is pure, and drawn from the pure waters of the Scriptures; not feelings, as you have adapted. IHOP doctrines ARE NOT BIBLICAL! Books could be written about this FACT.
Please read the testimonies here for starters, and then investigate the facts. Are you blind? Yoiu could be, but I pray not. Your Eternal home is at stake. Love in Him; Tom Watkins.
Mike has been warned of his doctrinal errors going on forty years. You can chalk me up (well, actually my husband) as having talked to Mike a handful of times back in the 80′s, before Ernie Gruen’s documentation.
Thomas makes a great point in that these numerous errors cannot be seen in any other light than that of the Gospel message, which is proclaimed so much in the scriptures, it’s really all they are about.
Mike Bickle, the RCC, and other mystically drawn persons seem to be blinded to this simple, powerful reality and are always needing to add their own feeble efforts. These efforts belie the faith they claim to possess.
Rick, what if today, for a season, you abandoned ALL religious practices? No more church time. No more prayer room. No more reading bible study books and prayer time. What if you reduced your acts of worship to one and only one, and that is simply believing that Jesus, who is God, saved you by dying for your sins? What if you clung to this truth as if your life depended upon it and ditched everything else? That you have zero to bring to the table but simple faith. What if you did that for a season? Would you fall away?
What if you took the template of what you’ve been taught by others off of the scriptures and simply read them and believed them? Line upon line read them and didn’t have one lifted out of context here and attached to another lifted out of context there, and strung together to make a convincing doctrine, found only by the creator of this doctrine?
If you will do what I’ve challenged, you will probably start seeing things a little differently than you do now. If God is not big enough to keep those who trust solely in Him and in HIm alone, He’s not God and His word isn’t true.
“has anyone here personally (AND privately) gone to Mike Bickle, Allen Hood, or any of IHOP-KC leadership and spoken to them one on one about THIS issue and the concerns that are being stated here.”
The irony here is that IHOP and much of the NAR has purposefully separated itself from anything resembling the Christian body. It is an independent group, a part of no denomination, it refuses to be a part of the ECFA, and wishes to be accountable to only number number like-minded people of a very limited perspective. Its theology has been condemned by Pentecostal denominations like the Assemblies of God and laughed out of the room by others.
The outreach to IHOP has already happened, and they have rejected correction. Matthew speaks of sinning against people, not correcting teaching. Titus 3:10 teaches of warning a divisive person and then having nothing to do with them. Bickle and IHOP more than qualify for this path of action.
@Thomas: “You have drawn your family into a cult, and your justification is that it fundamentally, it feels good and you are blessed”
Actually Thomas … “it feels good” … yes and no … it’s not about FEELING at all, it’s about the leading of the Lord. Almost all our entire family is back east, I’m an only child and my parents (while healthy) will eventually be my responsibility to care for. We left cousins, parents, and more behind to pursue what we believed God was telling us to do (after a 2 week water and media fast and a 2 month Daniel fast), not feeling good or bad at all.
Have we been blessed, actually yes we have … I have a job paying $30k MORE out in in KC and we have a house two times the size of our house in New York for half the price. I don’t attribute that to IHOP-KC, but I do attribute that to following the leading of the Lord and His favor on my family and my life. I also will state for the record that I don’t know if we will be at IHOP-KC forever (I actually am pretty certain that we won’t be), but I do know that for this season we are called here.
@Julie: “Rick, what if today, for a season, you abandoned ALL religious practices? No more church time. No more prayer room. No more reading bible study books and prayer time.”
Actually as far as church and religious practices go … I’m far from religion. You won’t see me celebrating Easter (we celebrate Resurrection) or Lent or whatever.
But I WILL NOT give up my time with the Lord thru prayer and His Word … I will ABSOLUTELY give up my short 3-4 hours per week that I spend in the prayer room … but my time with the Lord in my own prayer closet (often my car) is critical and precious to me … reading His Word and communicating with Him … I’m not going to give that up … I don’t recommend that anyone who has a personal relationship with the Lord give that up. I would be very concerned if you are telling people that we should only “believe” in Him and yet deny a relationship and communication with Him and reading His Word (that in itself sounds cult-like) … that’s a very much “Lakewood, Saddleback, Willow Creek” style of no-depth relationship with the Lord … don’t get me wrong I like Joel Olsteen, Rick Warren, and Bill Hybels … but I wouldn’t call them my first or second line of learning in my walk with Christ.
I’ve been saved for over 30 years … and as a matter of fact, my wife and I did leave “the church” for a season from May 2010 – November 2011 before coming out here to IHOP-KC. It didn’t take away from my walk with the Lord, and as a matter of fact I was strengthened in my own studies of the Word and in the Lord. But that is and should only be for a season (Hebrews 10:25).
I have found Mike and others out here to be some of the most grounded people utilizing scripture that I’ve heard preach (yes I know I’ll get flamed for that statement), and yes I’ve learn a ton from them, but I also learn from such teachers as Chuck Swindoll, Ravi Zacharias, and I’m currently reading “The Knowledge of the Holy” by A.W. Tozer (this book is full of solid food, I highly recommend it!!!). I want the revelation of the scripture so I’m seeking and I’m absolutely finding (Matthew 7:8).
Those of you that have talked with Mike about the cult issue and where he stands today (in 2012) on cults and such, I applaud you, you have every right to stand your ground and evaluate (positive or negative). But if you haven’t, be careful … with the same measure you judge, it will be judged back to you (Matthew 7:1-2) … I’m NOT saying to NOT judge and evaluate, but I’m saying to be careful in how you do it … please go to them first (Matthew 18:15-17) … bringing opinions out in the public first before talking the issue out is gossip; and gossip and slander is sin (2 Cor 12:20).
“What if you reduced your acts of worship to one and only one, and that is simply believing that Jesus, who is God, saved you by dying for your sins? “What if you clung to this truth as if your life depended upon it and ditched everything else? That you have zero to bring to the table but simple faith. What if you did that for a season? Would you fall away?…Julie
Thank you Julie for this profound, Christian counsel; Jesus plus nothing.
Mike is DRIVEN by the Roman Catholic Sub-Doctrine that one MUST live a “SACRIFICIAL LIFE” to please God more fully, & the more sacrificial the life, the better, the more spiritual…Hence, we see dogmatic Monasticism creep in, & devour,. Driving impressionable young people away from the Cross of Christ into performance as THE PATH….. 24/7..
Prayer & praise is then mimicked; for you are only taught to prayer after Mike’s Apostolic model using a dozen scriptures that he picked out? NO FREE SPIRIT LED PRAYER ALLOWED! [ Just like ALL of the Catholic Monasteries.
I call IHOP ..HIGH SPIRITUALITY--COLD LOVE. There can be no room for the weak there, for they cannot be disciplined enough to perform, only those 1/2 of 1% who are truly devoted. People float around there glassy eyed & remote, but highly spiritual in their pride; Missionaries!
No need to learn of Love through dying to the flesh; THE CROSS, & WALKING IN THE SPIRIT; just keep your end of the bargain & fulfill your oath that you signed. [ Total bondage & control to keep people bound by guilt & to keep numbers and cash abundant.]. Same spirit as the vows of the Monks & Nuns designed to keep them cloistered; & it works. A shame in the face of Christ to do this to the young!
Did some of you know that the “prayers” offered must be ordered after Rules and Form, and must fall into this rigid outline? Did you know that “worship” IS BUT songs that are also repetitive, with sets of songs pre-scheduled, & neither prayer or praise can be free? Just like the monastic Gregorian monks & Nunneries!
Did you know that to be a part of IHOP you must make a SACRED VOW [Against the command of scriptures ] that you will attend these scheduled events 40 hours a week., and submit to Bickles indoctrinations & teachings?…As you pay as you go, of course.
And, this is being spread all over the world. with scores of HOPS popping up founded by the indoctrinated Missionaries Mike’s vision is to reproduce 200,000 HOPS, Worldwide…[ I've been to Jerusalem's HOP...dry as a bone.]…as it converges with similar juggernauts such as YWAM, & Campus Crusades for Christ., that claim 10s of thousands of like church plants around the world….& those deceived get the reward of the deceiver:
Soberly, We understand that is the way it works, God made it that way.! Mike is leading people to Hell. May they escape.
Did you know that you have to pay to play, to attain the exalted status of a “PRAYER MISSIONARY?, and to attend their “University”…[ Thousands & Thousands of $dollars a year for each one?] TO LEARN THE WAY OF THE SATANIC, CATHOLIC MYSTICS & TEACHERS?***************
ONE OF THEIR SAGES TESTIFIES:
:”Centering prayer, lectio divina, Christian meditation, Taize, and the Divine Office are all sought. Prayer moves us toward the simple: often sitting silently before the Divine–in contemplative or centering prayer–is all we feel drawn to do.”
AND WHAT DOES IHOP/BICKLE TEACH YOU?
“Much of the literature being sold through the International House of Prayer’s online FORERUNNER Bookstore indicates a contemplative influence. One such book being offered is Fire Within, written by Father Thomas Dubay. IHOP founder Mike Bickle states, “I want this book to be the manual for IHOP-KC.” [1]
That is high praise indeed from Mike Bickle. The full title of the book is Fire Within: St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and the Gospel–On Prayer. Incredibly, Bickle’s “manual” is about Catholic, contemplative mystics! Also for sale on the website are books by and about St. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, and even Madame Guyon. ”
“MY WORD LIKE FIRE”..blogsite [ excellent article ]
http://mywordlikefire.com/2011/07/29/mike-bickle-of-ihop-wants-book-about-catholic-mystics-to-be-manual-for-ihop-kc/
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Transcendental Meditation/Pure Ancient Babylon Demonic Activity being promoted as the Gospel Truth. This MUST be resisted, exposed and Marked as to what it is and what it does; DECEIVE AND MURDER. Sorcery; with such a sweet face.
@David: “Titus 3:10 teaches of warning a divisive person and then having nothing to do with them. Bickle and IHOP more than qualify for this path of action.”
So you believe that IHOP-KC has received a warning … fine … but the Lord is saying have NOTHING to do with them …. nothing means nothing; don’t slander than, don’t speak praises of them, don’t say anything about them.
I don’t see that happening here at all on the blog, I see the opposite.
What is the world is NAR? I don’t think we are talking about the National Association of Realtor, National Association of Rocketry, or Nucleic Acids Research.
As far as the ECFA … my Presbyterian church that I grew up in wasn’t part of that … nor was my Baptist church just after college … nor was the AG church that I was an elder at. I understand the good financial oversight it can give, but you can’t use that as a be all and end all … that said, you have peaked my curiosity and I’m going to ask someone at FCF about that … I see some solid pluses to being with a financial accountability group like that.
Rick, I think most of the cult issues that people have with IHOP are the interns. I am not dismissing the false doctrine in anyway by saying this. You may not experience this to the same level as the youth that actually live there on campus.
Thanks Tom and Julie for your great insights!!
Actually Rick, the apostle Paul named names! Was that slander? :)
NAR is the New Apostolic Restoration (led by Peter Wagner) it’s the New Order of the Latter Rain, restoration of modern day apostles and prophets
@ Rick
“…Have I ever been forced to go to a meeting, NEVER…” “I go approximately 3 times a week…” “…I could go other times, but that’s it for me, and no one is offended or has ever approached me otherwise about that…” Rick, this is because you are NOT an ‘intern’ nor on staff at ihop, your experience would be much different if either of those were the case, as Mike would say, “You don’t have the ‘grid’ for it”.
“…for me and my wife and children, we have experienced wonderful growth in the Lord and encountering Him since moving here…” If you had actually had any ‘growth’, you would have gained some discernment. ‘Encountering’ God is ihop-speak also, I would really love it if you would explain exactly what your understanding of ‘encountering God’ is.
There are a few other ihop-speak phrases in your post; (‘marketplace’ for instance,means people who have jobs and can give you money) have you ever taken real time to consider what these things actually mean?
Forerunner, what does the scripture say about ‘forerunners’? Not much, I have right at hand here 13 different English translations of the scriptures it is found ONE TIME (Heb 6.20) and is speaking directly about Jesus (in 1 version it appears 2 times [Luke 1.17] also speaking directly about Jesus) Yet ihop teaches that ALL ihoppers are ‘forerunners’.
Fasted Lifestyle, the word ‘fasted is in all the English bibles, but as a verb i.e. – he fasted, and not as an adjective -fasted lifestyle as ihop uses it.
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON ( http://www.ihopedetroit.org/history-of-247-prayer/glossary/ ihop KC has removed their glossary page) even a tiny bit of discernment, that comes with spiritual growth, should cause you see the falseness in the doctrines. This is no mere quibble about words, it’s about false doctrines, pulling little snippets out of scripture (or thin air) giving them a twist, then creating false doctrine.
“…I enjoy going on…6am on Thursday to pray for media and the arts…” This one really had me stumped, until I remembered how this plays right into the ‘Dominion’ theology’s takeover plan for the ‘kingdoms’ of media and arts. Perhaps you could produce your own versions of “180” or “Genius” (http://www.180movie.com/ http://geniusthemovie.com/ ) or even just preach the Gospel. You don’t need movies or ‘prophetic art’ to do that, just the Holy Spirit.
“…Mike…spoke a message that it was time…to see if the Lord has them in a season to move on. I have NEVER heard of a cult leader saying to someone who is wholeheartedly committed to them to leave…” Well, this is a biggie. First off, Mike, most likely, WASN’T speaking to those who are “wholeheartedly committed” to ihop (drank the kool aid) but rather to those who were a little more spiritually grounded in the Word of God. Seriously, why waste time on those who aren’t buying the false doctrine?
“…We have ALWAYS been told that our family is #1. My first responsibility is to my wife and kids; if I started to be pulled in other directions than that, I would be the first to say it’s time to go…” As for who comes first God or the family; if God is first and foremost, you will honor God by being responsible to your family. Luke 14.26 spells out exactly how all other relationships are to be viewed in comparison to our relationship with God.
You might need more than 3 days a week to study.
-Chad
A little more on the ‘partnering’ issue- (source http://christinewas.wordpress.com/partner-with-me-practical-details/ )
Tax Deductible
For tax-deductible contributions, you can write checks to IHOP-KC. Simply attach a post-it, or include a separate piece of paper, with my name (Christine Wasinger) on it and mail checks to:
IHOP Support
3535 E Red Bridge Rd
Kansas City, MO 64137
(Please do not include my name on the check.)
(Post-it notes, separate sheets of paper, just don’t put the actual recipient’s name on the check, make ‘em out to ihop -Chad)
@Chad: Giving like that is normal for non-profits. Christian or otherwise … I worked in PBS for 4 years. You couldn’t write the “where to put the monies” on the check … It had to be on a card or pledge form; that’s very normal
@Thomas: “Did you know that “worship” IS BUT songs that are also repetitive, with sets of songs pre-scheduled, & neither prayer or praise can be free?”
I must disagree with your statement of a lack of being free as I will describe below:
Go to any church on the corner, and the songs are pre-scheduled … the Episcopal church I grew up in, had the hymn list right up front … the charismatic church tends to be more free flow, but there is still a list of songs. The only place I haven’t see a “list of songs” is ironically in the pentacostal church, and that’s only rarely.
IHOP is no different per se, there is a set of songs, but then a time of spontaneous … and there is a solid order the spontaneous too (that sounds odd but after you read this you’ll see a known order).
At IHOP-KC the order is the following: the worship leader will start a song, and then after the song ends or gets to a certain flowing point the worship leader or chorus leader create choruses, the chorus to be repeated can be “set” by singing it 3 times (for people to catch on) and it will repeat 10-12 times depending on the flow, it will always end with the name of that Lord (i.e. oh God, Jesus, Father, Spirit, Father God, etc.).
The three singers in the front are lead singers, they are all involved in one line spontaneous phrases back and forth. The one to three singers in the back are group singers and act as a chorus group per se. The new rappers that are on some teams also are in the back row and I don’t know specifically what their role is but they act more in a prayer leader role.
Any person on the team can sing something that they believe the Lord has at any time, but it’s done with order. You’ll see a singer open their bible and hold it in their hand, that’s a signal to the worship leader that they have a song from the Lord to sing, once the leader acknowledges it, they will have them sing it.
The prayer leader’s mic is always the loudest on the team, but their job is not to sing, their job it prayer leading during “Worship with the Word” sets. The prayer leader during an “Intercession” set is at a podium where they start their prayer with one of 50 “apostolic prayers” (which are direct quotations of scripture) and afterwards they move into a 3-5 minute free flow prayer time. Sometimes after that free flow prayer, it moves into small group prayer in the room or rapid fire prayer at the mic where anyone in the room is invited up to the mic to pray.
This happens in 4-6 20 minute cycles per two hour block … sometimes longer sometimes shorter. This is different at every house of prayer, in the 247 Movement (“The Vision” and the “The Oath” movement out of England … not connected with IHOP-KC) … the mix it up a bit more to focus on the spoken prayer aspect rather than the song aspect, but there is still an order and a flow to each block of time.
“Did you know that you have to pay to play, to attain the exalted status of a “PRAYER MISSIONARY?, and to attend their “University”…[ Thousands & Thousands of $dollars a year for each one?]”
Not 100% true … yes, to be on full time staff you must complete a internship (or have graduated from IHOPU), this is true and yes this does cost around $1000 for Intro to IHOP-KC and more for the “Fire in the Night” and “oneThing” Internships (which have housing, transportation, food and materials, all covered by the tuition)
But I can as a normal everyday person be on prayer room staff (5 sets or 10 hours in the prayer room a week) or community staff (1 set or 2 hours in the prayer room a week). I personally am on neither community or prayer room staff even though I’m in the prayer room about 3-4 hours a week. You do not HAVE TO pay to play.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/sex-charges-rock-purpose-driven-healthy-church/?cat_orig=faith
Proof that Rick Warren is a cult leader and the bad fruit of his ministry is clear for all to see! Attack, attack, attack!!
Rick,
I would love to hear how you believe “abiding in Christ” is accomplished. Thanks.
Rick,
Also, what is your take on “a great falling away from the faith?” Please expound on what Paul means by “faith”. Again, I hope you answer these two questions and thanks, in advance, for doing so.
please go to them first (Matthew 18:15-17) …
The problem I have with the use of this scripture is that it is in the context of offence between two people. It really has nothig to do with the situation at hand. I have nor have many, many others been offended on a personal level by Mike Bickle.
Mike Bickle is teaching things to the PUBLIC that just do not align with the true words of our lord when read in context of the author (the Holy Spirit) and as such should be judged publically.
“But I can as a normal everyday person be on prayer room staff (5 sets or 10 hours in the prayer room a week) or community staff (1 set or 2 hours in the prayer room a week). I personally am on neither community or prayer room staff even though I’m in the prayer room about 3-4 hours a week. You do not HAVE TO pay to play..”…Rick
Really: Here is the IHOP site about tuition.
Cost :
One Thing Internship Six months $4,900 Includes food and housing
Intro to IHOPKC Track I – three months $1,200
Track II – three months $900
Fire in the Night Track I – three months $2,200 Includes food and housing
Track II – three months $2,000 Includes food and housing
Simeon Company Track I – three months $1,200
Track II – three months $900
International Student Costs
IHOPU Schools
Freshman Year Costs Ministry School Music School Media School
Tuition for full year $4,500 $5,500 $5,500
One-time administration fee $1,000 $1,000 $1,000
Activity fee* for full year $250 $250 $250
Living expenses‡ for full year $7,500 $7,500 $7,500
Health insurance‡ for full year $700 $700 $700
Total, freshman year‡ $13,950 $14,950 $14,950
“Deeply spiritual Reasoning & Explanation:”‡
“Estimated.”
These figures are necessary to international applicants because IHOPU requires a guarantee of financial resources from each applicant who expects to obtain and maintain M-1 student status. International students are also required to have health insurance.”
http://www.ihopkc.org/ihopu/admissions/tuition/
“NO PAY TO PLAY?” Of course they allow anyone [ almost] to sit in, but their bread & butter, to fund the full timers, is sucked out of the “interns”, at all levels. On top of this, there are multiple Xtra teaching classes that COST MORE MONEY, ALONG WITH TITHING & OFFERINGS pushed on the community proving how sold out you are. Standard cult/control. CASH.
$15,000 a year for the poor foreigner. Very spiritual indeed.
As Far as Freedom in prayer & praise, I submit top you a former IHOP staffer’s testimony a little contrare’ to yours, Rick.
“The grip of control and micro-management increasing: greater demands and restrictions on interns such as increased pressure to fast more to attain a higher pinnacle of spirituality; being told where we had to sit when in the prayer room, taught a model for how to pray, how to dance, sing, etc. Any form of worship outside of this model was not considered to be acceptable. It had to fit IHOP’s style and method to be admissible..”
http://designofprovidence.blogspot.com/2011/11/experiences-on-ihop-kcs-staff.html
A Neo- Catholic/Mystic Monastic Deception trying to spread the Earth.
Cult/Cult/Cult control & Deception..
Mark And Avoid.
@Rick, I’ll not comment on PBS…Still, these are checks going to INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. Ihop is NOT soliciting these funds, the so-called ‘missionaries’ are soliciting the funds. This is a way of washing the funds, when a check can simply be given to an individual, but this would create a tax burden on the ‘missionary’. So ihop receives the funds and hopefully disburses it to the intended recipient. Then ihop can send it out as an expense (my checks said ‘missionary support’), the ihopper is then 1099′d at the end of the year. Inside the envelope was a small strip of paper listing who the check or cash came from, NOT written on the tear off section, but a small strip of paper. It does not matter how ‘normal’ this is, it is illegal, I checked a long time ago.
“…You do not HAVE TO pay to play….”
FALSE -YOU DO HAVE TO PAY, interns have to pay out beau coup bucks to attend, the ‘missionary’ MUST also meet a minimum amount of ‘partner support’ in order to remain on staff, these are the FACTS.
The chorus’ you wrote about in another post are repetitive phrases, which a normal person would recognize as chanting. It IS hypnotic, along with the music itself- Since most of the songs used have a continuous circular chord progression. It has been explained, cited, rehashed etc, over and over again how this is a mechanism for brainwashing, how it puts the brain into a trance-like state, how it makes one receptive to suggestion and how this type of mechanism has been used in pagan rites for 10s of centuries. So it is nothing ‘new’ as ihop would have you believe. It is however, STRANGE FIRE.
As for the ‘worship’ not being preprogrammed, that is simply not true. I will not call you a liar, since you claim not to be on staff and you would have no way of knowing what goes on before and after a team takes the platform. I will explain though.
1 hour to 30 minutes before a set (some folks go beyond that) the team meets in the ‘briefing room’, songs are discussed, then selected, the order determined and then they are printed out. The leader will then discuss with the team EXACTLY how he/she would like the team to respond at various points throughout the 2 hour set. After the team leaves the stage, they will all file back into the ‘briefing room’ and then for an undetermined period, the entire set is dissected, rehashed and criticisms or praise is given. I did this for over 3 years. In fact this ‘free’ worship is actually more constrained, contained and controlled than any other setting I have ever led a song service in.
“…Any person on the team can sing something that they believe the Lord has at any time…” FALSE, see above.
“…You’ll see a singer open their bible and hold it in their hand, that’s a signal to the worship leader that they have a song from the Lord to sing, once the leader acknowledges it, they will have them sing it…” FALSE, it is all preplanned, even the order in which each singer rotates in. .
“…The prayer leader’s mic is always the loudest on the team…” Also FALSE, it is decided by whoever is in the booth and the sound tech can and does override the express instructions of the team leader (the sound tech is often the section leader and they are in charge, so they do what they determine is best).
It looks to me as if you copied all of this from the website or your hand-out notes from an intro class. Seriously, if you are only there 3 times each week, and you have a full-time job, your presence must not really exceed 6-9 hours each week. A full-time staffer will have 40+ hours in the room plus an additional 10-20 hours administrative (labor) and even more in class time and community and staff meetings.
So, with your brief visits to ihop you are going to explain what is going on? You are going to instruct and correct people who have actually done and lived what you are trying to teach? You really don’t know what you are talking about, you might think you do. Yet you press on and forge ahead with the little factlets you glean from official ihop sources. There are many other falsities, misinformation and half truths in this (and other) posts by you. It just takes too long to address each one individually. Still, I suppose when you try to take poisoned meat from a stray, they will try and bite your hand.
I found this BRAVE testimony from a survivor of IHOP Cult Control. Insights here into the true inner workings of how the IHOP cult controls & feeds on it’s devotees.
CONFESSIONS & TESTIMONY OF AN IHOP INTERN STAFF REFUGEE.
“RED FLAGS”
“There were many, many experiences that made me do a double take and say “what?” while I was at IHOP but that internal questioning was quickly explained away or rebuked by internship leaders. Once I began to deviate from IHOP’s teachings and study scripture on my own for answers to the internal conflicts I wrestled with, I began questioning the pseudo reality I had been conditioned to embrace. Suddenly I saw the isolated red flag incidences as a seamless pattern of error and the veil of deception fell. I stopped rationalizing and justifying. Enough was enough and I was done and wanted out.
There are much more personal experiences than I can put into one single blog post, but here are a few I still recall pretty strongly.
1. Mandatory fasts which made me very physically ill. They would never admit to having “mandatory” fasts but when you don’t have any food available, close down the kitchen, give your cook the day off and don’t allow interns to hold jobs (so that they have money to go buy food if they aren’t participating in the fast) then that is called mandatory.
2. Being practically held hostage in the prayer room and told that it was required that I be there and I was not allowed to leave even though I did not feel well and wanted to go back to my apartment. I was told I needed to stay in the prayer room to be part of the “corporate anointing” and that I shouldn’t leave. It was one of my “required” prayer room sets as an intern so I spent the remainder of that 2-hour set in one of the side prayer rooms in the back sobbing on the floor because I wanted to leave so badly and our internship leaders were standing by the door. You might ask “why didn’t you just force your way out and leave anyway?” When you are part of cult where free, independent thinking is not condoned when you don’t comply with what is expected of you, very often guilt, manipulation and penalties are instated for those who resist. Interns who didn’t follow “the rules” of the internship were penalized through loss of privileges (such as loss of your day off, having to do extra work/manual labor, etc.)
3. The grip of control and micro-management increasing: greater demands and restrictions on interns (such as increased pressure to fast more to attain a higher pinnacle of spirituality) being told where we had to sit when in the prayer room, taught a model for how to pray, how to dance, sing, etc. Any form of worship outside of this model was not considered to be acceptable. It had to fit IHOP’s style and method to be admissible.
4. Mandatory journaling assignments which we had to do weekly and then we had to turn in our journals to be read by internship leaders
5. Seeing how controlled the prayer room was. Rather than having freedom to express my heart to the Lord, I was put in a box and told how I had to do everything IHOP’s way. I had reading and writing assignments whenever I was in the prayer room.
6. There was no alone time ever to really think, reason, test, question or process anything. We were run ragged from sun up to late into the night which always left me exhausted, depleted and burnt out.
7. Once when I got sick, my mother came to pick me up and internship leaders resisted letting me leave with her (even though she lived in town). My internship ‘com leader’ (short for community leader) objected and still impressed upon me the importance of going to the prayer room even though I was too sick to get off the couch. My mother said “she is my daughter and I’m taking her home and taking care of her. Period.”
8. The more leadership responsibility I was given as an intern, the more I got peeks into the “inside”. I saw the outer fringes of the internal operations of how IHOP functioned. I was on an IHOP dance team and sang as a chorus leader on a few worship teams. To dance, I had to follow a specific model that IHOP required. To sing, I had to attend the briefing/de-briefing meetings before and after each worship set where I saw first-hand how carefully controlled that the seemingly “spontaneous” aspects of worship were carefully calculated and often planned ahead of time.
9. Another intern got deathly ill and it wasn’t until she ended up being hospitalized that internship leaders took seriously the fact she was sick. They accused her of faking an illness to get out of attending IHOP classes and time in the prayer room. This was told to me directly by that intern.
10. If I wanted to go anywhere off IHOP property (even to go see my family who lived in town) I had to notify internship leaders of my whereabouts at all times. I had no autonomy or freedom as an individual. Some leaders who were 19 (but were former interns which gave them elite status) were telling me where to be, what to do and when I was expected to be home. I had to answer to them for everything. I was in my early 20′s and had lived on my own before so the feeling of suffocation and having no personal rights to space, privacy, independent thought, etc. was overwhelming.
There is much more but I think that’s a sufficient start to at least give you an idea of some of what was happening when I was at IHOP. It wasn’t until after I left that I began to see far more than I had been able to see when I was still involved. The casual observer on the periphery won’t necessarily see the reality of all that is happening there because they are seeing the veil that IHOP has built to carefully cloak the truth of a lot of what really happens.
After I left, I realized how worn out and exhausted I was in every way imaginable. I spent days and weeks sleeping and physically healing from the trauma of the experiences I had just come out of and to let my body heal from the fasting and sleep deprivation. It took a long time for me to really start healing emotionally and spiritually and to begin putting pieces together. Recovering from mental and spiritual abuse like that is a hard road and a difficult place to come out from. I did months of research after I left IHOP and the immediate dust had settled. I wanted to see the roots of the giant beanstalk that had sprouted up and choked the life out of everything in me. I started going back as far into the history of IHOP as I could. As interns we were required to listen to 18 hours of audio CDs recapping all of the history of IHOP and the “prophesies” that led to it’s starting. I started researching on the internet about the names of the so called prophets of this movement and what they had come out of. That led me to picking apart a very carefully woven web of key players that all were connected to this massive organization.
I shared with one parent who e-mailed me about her own child at IHOP the importance of praying that the L-rd will open their eyes not only to see, but to recognize and identify the red flags of IHOP. The thing is, they are probably already seeing them, but rationalizing and excusing them away as isolated events rather than viewing them as a destructive pattern. I pray that the Father will show those there who are truly seeking him the pattern of red flags…making them so obvious they can no longer ignore them.
My hope is that the young people there who are much like I was will begin to question what they see and compare it with what the scripture actually says…not how Mike Bickle twists and teaches it…and that they have the courage to identify it and reject it. Those who oppose IHOP and speak out typically experience some kind of consequences or backlash. People are a commodity there. They are traded. When wounded ones leave, IHOP leadership doesn’t sweat over it…new and unsuspecting people who are ignorant of their dangerous devices but are hungry for emotionally-driven experiences and spiritual highs will come back in the same door the others left. It’s a revolving door of deception.
The deceptions of IHOP are treacherous and very real. Did G-d use that place in my life and work together for my good the devastation I experienced? Absolutely. But that is a testimony to the goodness of our G-d…not a stamp of approval on a place. Remember he spoke through a donkey and a burning bush. That doesn’t mean we should glorify donkeys and start worshiping bushes.
I’ve been asked many times how my eyes were opened to see what was happening at IHOP and how I got out, etc. I’ve thought about that many times and the simplest answer I can give is that I knew who my source was. G-d was my source of instruction, teaching, counsel, truth, etc. It was His voice I was seeking to hear and His approval I desired. IHOP wasn’t my source. So when the things I heard from the L-rd through prayer and studying His word were in conflict with the things I was being taught in IHOP it made the decision to leave an easier one. It was traumatic and painful and I’m not going to minimize that. But it was the price of protecting truth and I knew that staying would have compromised what I knew was right and since my desire is to delight the heart of my Father, once He removed the scales, I was out.
My desire is to see people set free to live lives of healing and wholeness…walking in genuine love and pursuing truth. My prayer is that the things you read on this blog inspire you to that end.
Grace and peace to you.
http://gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com/2010/01/01/some-of-my-ihop-red-flags/
Thomas Ray, they don’t fund the full timers, they have to come up with their own money, so even they have to pay to play
I know that the elite Class, like Ed Hackett, , Allen Hood, Misty Edwards, Mike Bickle & the like are salaried…and several more..The top staff.
I don’t know at what level you attain this elite class…but I know it’s there. I also know that they had a recent “Lay off” because they we’re “bleeding” $100,000 or so per month; 200 people had to go…..
Here is ARIEL’S Testimony, who was an Intern at IHOP….Until the Wool was lifted away from the Wolf.
Ariel’s Testimony
It was the year I turned 23.I was bright-eyed, excited and full of hope & anticipation.Sure, I’d been through some rough stuff, but I knew that the Lordwas the keeper of my life and I was heading into a new season of trusting Him deeper.
I was moving to Kansas City! My long-awaited (14 years) dream of being in Kansas City to be a part of Mike Bickle’s ministry which had now branched into an International House of Prayer was finally materializing into reality. I had big hopes and dreams and wanted nothing but to serve my God with everything.
Since I was 12 years old, my family and I had driven the 3 hour trek to Kansas City for conferences at the church Mike Bickle pastored at the time (It is known by various names as they changed at different stages: Kansas City Fellowship, Metro Vineyard Fellowship & Metro Christian Fellowship). My spiritual roots had, in many ways, grown from the times that I spent in these gatherings and what I felt God imparted to my life while I was there. I had been around…marinating in the environment for about 14 years; so I knew a lot about the history that led up to what is now known as IHOP (the International House of Prayer). I remember one of the first times Mike shared his vision for starting IHOP. Many left Metro with Mike when he stepped down as senior pastor to help support it’s start-up.
So fast forward…IHOP was still within its first 5 years of operation and I was captivated by what I saw and heard. If there was a “poster child” that endorsed IHOP and who was convinced it was the best thing going, that would have been me. I say all of this to lay a back drop for what follows.
A long journey and a lot of waiting preceded the decision to move to Kansas City. My family and I unanimously agreed that after much prayer, it was the right timing so we sold or gave away half of what we owned, packed up the rest and moved to the Utopia of what we thought would be the greatest spiritual adventure of our lives. I had a background in the arts…music, dance, etc and couldn’t wait to get involved so I could really feel like I belonged there…not just a visitor hanging in the periphery and coming for conferences. I wanted to get “in”.
When we arrived on moving day, the “community” we were hoping to be a part of and the support of those we knew from IHOP appeared to be quite lacking. We were told that to obtain moving help from IHOP, we had to hire them at a ridiculous hourly rate ($20/per person, per hour) which we could not afford. When the neighbors who lived next door found out that it was just us and we had NO help moving in, their family came over and helped us unpack our moving truck for approximately the next 3 hours–for no charge–just to be good neighbors. Oh…and did I mention they weren’t even believers? They had compassion on our predicament and carried boxes and hauled furniture without complaining once. They simply smiled and said “welcome to the neighborhood”.
The un-relational climate we had seen hints of in the past became rapidly obvious upon our relocation to IHOP-KC. There was a lot of talk about “community” but everyone I met was so tunnel visioned on “always being in the prayer room” that they didn’t want to socialize or make time to build real relationships with people. There was a relational vacuum and the disconnect I felt upon my arrival was overwhelming. This was a significant concern of mine and my family but we rationalized it away with “oh, we just haven’t been here long enough. Eventually, we’ll feel more connected and involved and we’ll see the relational community that IHOP advertises here. Just give it time.”
Within a month, I joined the One Thing internship (which is an intensive 6-month long internship program for 18-25 year olds). I had really felt it was what I should do and had the support of my family that this was a great thing for me. They also felt it was a great way for me to connect to the ministry we had all moved here to be a part of. So our family’s income tax return went toward the steep $4,500 tuition fee for the program and I came on board in August. I was full of excitement and felt that things were finally coming together for me. At least that’s how it appeared.
This is where it all began for me….
A cult? Strong word you might say…and you are correct. It is not a word I use lightly or carelessly to label anything. But much prayer, time and years of research and personal experience have brought me to the conclusion that I can say confidently that the root system–or foundation–that IHOP is built on follows the basic premises and signs of a cult religious group. When I first left IHOP, I went through a severe culture shock that is hard to put into words. When I began studying the signs of cult fallout and the things that cult members go through after leaving a cult, my eyes began to open to what I had been a part of and recently come out of.
Below I have listed some common signs of cult operation. Below them I cite in underlined text short examples of my personal experiences as IHOP which illustrates these particular signs in IHOP’s day to day practice. After 6 years of being out of IHOP I still hold to my position that it is a dangerous place for people’s hearts and I have seen much destruction of families, relationships and marriages of those who have been involved with this movement.
I appreciate your taking the time to read and prayerfully consider the research and personal testimony I have included below.
1. A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members’ behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships.
As an intern at IHOP, our day to day lives were closely monitored and dictated. I was not allowed to go anywhere or leave IHOP premises without express verbal permission from a community leader except on our one day off. Our schedules started early in the morning with hours in the prayer room, then classes, then back to the prayer room. Our nights often ran late with required attendance at EGS (Encounter God Services) or any other special event Mike spoke at that we were required to attend. Sometimes we had to attend worship sets that ended at 10 pm or midnight. Sleep was minimal and was often un-restful when I did get it. Sleep deprivation is a commonly used tactic in many cult groups to weaken the mind and make a person more susceptible to the embracing of the doctrines taught by that cult. There are many biological and psychological effects of sleep deprivation on the mind.
2. A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations.
Anyone who rebelled against IHOP’s rules went through a strict disciplinarian process. At its most minimal level of discipline, for an intern, this meant the loss of having a day off and having to do manual labor. Everyone was kept on a short leash. We also had weekly groups as interns that we were required to participate in where everyone was“interrogated” and pressured to open up and share their personal struggles, etc and answer personal questions about their lives, struggles, thoughts, fears, and walks with G-d. It often felt like going to some kind of confession (as in Catholocism) and some interns out and out refused to be so vulnerable and disclosing in front of people they did not know. We were all given journals and told that we had mandatory writing assignments to complete. We were to record details of our IHOP prayer room times, things God spoke to us, dreams, visions, or whatever else that happened in us spiritually and then had to turn in our journals weekly to have an internship leader review/read them. In the last month or so I was at IHOP I paid particularly close attention to the fact that internship leaders ironically prayed things over me in prayer times or at the altar in the prayer room that related directly to things I had put in my journals. So what often might have seemed prophetic was the result of the information about me they already had access to.
3. A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising.Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group’s main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult’s real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader.
There were always an underlying pressure to bring people into IHOP. We were encouraged to invite others and get them to join what we were doing. IHOP campaigns big time to recruit new interns. At every conference, advertising and marketing videos are used to this day to promote the internships. They are played on large TV screens like presidential campaigns and are just part of the propaganda used to “sell” young people on this new version of what walking with God is supposed to look like.
Each intern paid $4,500 to attend a 6 month internship. This covered some books/teaching material we were given as well as food, lodging etc. Check this out though: Every intern lived in the Hernhutt apartments (located next door) which IHOP owned anyway so the only expense was utilities and general upkeep. There was no rent. Plus when there was a mandatory fasting day, weekend, week, etc. no meals were served. So those who didn’t choose to fast had to go out and buy food and no interns were not allowed to have jobs so this got to be a big expense since there wasn’t extra money to live on.
I lived in a 2-bedroom apartment. It housed 6 girls from the ages of 20-23. 4 of us shared one room and 2 shared another. The prayer room costs nothing to attend and is free and open to the public. So hmmm….$4,500 for meals, my electric bill and some IHOP books. I currently live in my own apartment, pay all of my own bills including rent, food, gasoline, renter’s insurance, credit card bills, student loans, electric, cell phone, etc etc and ALL of that costs me approximately $1,500 a month. So basic math says that someone was getting a big paycheck because my expenses would have never cost that in an internship program where we were given so little.
4. A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life’s problems or the world’s ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.
In the time I was there Mike often used “them and us” types of statements when referring to “the church” or those outside of IHOP. We were given a sense of being on the “cutting edge” because we were ahead of the church and were doing something new & innovative that was going to sweep the world. It all sounded good so everyone wanted to be in on it as a “forerunner” and liked the label of being on the front lines. So no one dared questioned it.
5. A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader’s wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.
Our family became friends with a Jewish couple who were in KC for a conference. They were part of an orthodox Jewish congregation in Israel and were missionaries in the US. They had some grave concerns and red flags (regarding IHOP’s theology, the model that is used with everything IHOP related, etc) that they attempted to meet with Mike and discuss. After being brushed off by Mike multiple times in his refusal to meet with him…even though they were Jewish leaders from Israel and Mike knew of them, he finally told these friends of ours that “This is how we do things here. This is just how IHOP is. It’s not for everyone.” If there was something you didn’t like or didn’t agree with, you were basically told “IHOP wasn’t for everyone so if you couldn’t handle it, maybe you shouldn’t be here.” There was no actual accountability for anything deemed wrong/un-Biblical. We were told that IHOP has its own “culture” and you must assimilate into that culture and language to really understand it. If you had a problem with something, you were told that you just had not been around long enough to understand how they did things OR that you just weren’t a good fit. These were the answers I was given when I met with internship leaders right before leaving. There was never actual admittance of wrong doing or hurting anyone who was caught in the crossfire.
6. A destructive cult’s leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom.
Every intern was required to listen to the 12 hours of IHOP’s recorded history on CD footage. Much of this content was heavily edited before its publication. These tapes told of “prophetic words” and signs that were given to some of Mike’s mentors (Bob Jones, Paul Cain, etc)—who were all naming him as the leader of the next “big thing” God was doing. Over and over and over again I’ve heard it said (both directly by Mike as well as from others) that he (Mike) would be the leader of a movement that “changed the nature and expression of Christianity in the earth”. Every time, all recognition points to Mike. His “mission” to transform the church and capture the hearts of America’s youth has been his declared goal since the early 1980’s. One of the major dangers is that these grandious sounding claims and “prophetic” words are laden with flattery, narcissism, elitism and are a perfect guise under which anything Mike introduces through IHOP can fall under the heading of being a “new thing” God is doing.
This elitist teaching puts Mike on a pedestal and he has a Messianic-like devoted following of people who would do anything if he told them to without a moment of questioning or hesitation. From my observations and experiences on staff, IHOP members do not think for themselves or question Mike’s interpretation of scripture or the slant in the way he teaches it. At any conference, one will easily observe that if Mike recommends a book or promotes a teaching, a t-shirt or a speaker, at the next break, ALL of that item will be sold out in their bookstore. When I was on staff, I heard people continually sing Mike’s praises around the clock and quote more of what Mike says or thinks or teaches than actual scripture.
Mike has an alluring charisma and many seem to be instantly drawn to his convincing appearance of direction and purpose. He teaches with passion and emotion rather than truth and it’s that charisma that draws and hooks people causing many to blindly follow (and defend) his message.
I believe that the IHOP lifestyle by and large sets people up for disillusionment through the false hope that its deception provides. It is a pseudo, manufactured reality where people are told “you can live in Nirvana and enjoy the ‘high’ of being in God’s presence 24/7 and that can be ALL that you live for” so people sell all that they have, buy into a dream and move across the country to be a part of a ministry that makes captivating claims…and then their world often crumble to ashes when things aren’t as they seem once they arrive.
Mike’s primary target and focus is on the young people. His appeals from the pulpit and his well-polished speeches aim at capturing the hearts of America’s youth. Children and youth are not told or encouraged to respect or honor the parents G-d gave them. Instead, wedges are driven between families and a seed of pride, rebellion and elitism gets planted into the hearts of youth when they are told things like the following…
This is a very close paraphrase of what I’ve heard many, many times at One Thing, IHOP conferences and in teachings by leaders:
“YOU are called to be on the cutting edge. Come here and join a community of other people who are like you, called to what you’re called to. We understand you. You’ve been mis-understood in the church. You’ve had your wings clipped, your gifts misunderstood. Here you can fulfill your forerunner calling that your family just hasn’t understood about you. You might feel like you don’t fit back home, you’re on the outside, no one understands the fire in you. Well we get it. Youare the leaders that G-d is raising up in these end times and you will be kings and queens on the earth—reigning with Him. You were made for this place. IHOP is an incubator for people like you.”
Narcissistic speeches like this instill a sense of pride, arrogance and elitism in the hearts of youth who hear it and it feeds their need for validation and identity. They run to IHOP, leave their families, join internships…hoping that what they’ve heard is true. They go to IHOP looking for identity…instead of finding it in Jesus.
Once outside of the IHOP environment, they are terrified and overwhelmed by the “real” world and don’t know how to function in it when they’ve been in an intensive internship environment. There is a degree of re-acclimating to normal life that feels like an IHOP detox afterward. It’s a severe emotional drop because the hyped up services and conferences that were your manna are now gone and when there is no prayer room, your life in God feels empty and lifeless. Many simply don’t know how to engage with God in a real day-to-day basis once they’ve left. I experienced this and heard the exact same thing from a handful of my friends after they left IHOP and the internship. At that point when disillusionment sets in, I know many interns that walked away from God completely upon leaving the internship and went back into lifestyles worse than the ones they left when they came to IHOP originally.
7. A destructive cult’s leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself.Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.
I believe my statements above illustrate this so I won’t be redundant.
8. A destructive cult’s leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers’ possessions, money, time, and lives.
Youth are pumped up at conferences and then go home to tell their parents they are moving to Kansas City to join IHOP, be part of an internship, etc. At the time, sadly, they don’t realize how much more they are giving up and leaving behind than just their families. I was hurled into a system that took control of my time, when I ate, slept, had time alone, etc. Picking up the pieces of my heart and rebuilding a Biblical view of God after getting outside of IHOP was quite a long process. I hope that by sharing all of this, I am able to spare others the heartache of what I went through.
You may or may not have been in a cult-like environment but here are some potential signs to watch for in safe/unsafe group leaders.
“I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. Therefore be as wise and cunning as snakes but innocent as doves.” –Matthew 10:16
**********
Research by Rick Ross,Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist
Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.
9. The group/leader is always right.10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower’s mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused–as that person’s involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as “persecution”.
4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.
Please don’t just take my word for it. Start doing your own research. Ask the Father to lead you as you pursue what is TRUTH. Don’t just stop at the facts–look deeper. Do Google searches on cults and ask the Lord to unveil deceptions.
Blessings to you on your journey of walking with Him.
http://standupforthetruth.com/2012/04/is-ihop-a-cult-one-interns-story/
Something that strikes me here; The fact that somewhere along the line, Mike Bickle pigrimaged to the Vatican, to participate with a select audience with the Pope. The Pope does Masses, regularly for the “cream of the crop constituents ” Business leaders, Government and Religious officials etc. who get the “Royal Treatment”.; Keeps them in prideful obedience.& ultimately Money: Money is power & visa-versa.
At the very beginning of IHOP, there were many Catholic Priests on campus, on stage with Mike, and even serving MASS in private. My Question is WHY? Why did Mike go to the Papal Palace & participate? You CANNOT go there, and NOT BOW DOWN, & genuflect [ worship ] to the Catholic Mary Demon Jezebel, or the Pope. You would NEVER GAIN ENTRANCE!
Yes, they still kiss his ring, the ring of Satan. These are mandatory at the Vatican, & the blood of the martyrs run in rivers by the hands of these snakes, who tortured the true saints; who refused these two basic acts of Submission to the Universal System.
Undoubtedly, the Scarlet Thread of Papal Catholicism, & her refrains of her Mystic Monasticism, is the common thread we see here, as IHOP is revealed in her Abuses. These are derived from her Monastic Order, patterned after the Nunneries & Monasteries of old, along with the oil that greases the gears of her abominations;
It is Transcendental Meditation, “Meditative/Contemplative to twist it, but the exact same methods to induce the Nirvanic Trances as the Bhuddist , Hindi, Tibetan, Taoist Priests for 5000 years This is the language of BABEL; the organized worship of Satan and “THE HOSTS OF HEAVEN”…[ Fallen demons]; & this is at the root as to WHY? IHOP is a Cult. & Mike Bickle has fallen.
She is but the daughter of the Largest & most Powerful Cult ever formed; The Roman Catholic Church; Formerly known as the Babylonian mysteries.
She is void of the Holy Spirit, & while purporting to lead souls closer to God, she leads them away from God, as the survivors of the IHOP monastery have so testified; Thank-God.
Remember: The ancient Papal Monasteries were the Trainers of the Priesthood;; both male & female. These were designed, just like IHOP & Mike Bickle, to TRAIN Missionaries,& Priests. These were, & still are, the ELITE, deeper life Priest/Class “Father” crowd.
Though being involved there for over 20 years, this blog has helped me to see the depth and treachery of IHOP; almost like coming nose to nose with the Devil. It is stunning, after hearing this eyewitness testimony, to imagine HOW someone could become so dark & manipulative, in the name of God. Why can’t they see?
It is the nature of deception, & the cult, I suppose, but it outrages me to see the innocent murdered. I think of the recent 1st grade massacre in Connecticut. It may not seem like it is as cruel, but it is, & just as murderous too, to brainwash innocents to strut at the feet of Jezebel & call her Christ.: 10s & 10s of thousands now.
This is what Mike is doing now,
After reading posts at Ariel’s Gospel Masquerade blog, I explored this issue at my own blog. I listened to some of Mike Bickle’s talks about cults, and I don’t feel that he has adequately addressed cult accusations against IHOP.
http://republic-of-gilead.blogspot.com/2012/07/christian-blogger-claims-ihop-is-cult.html
I wanted to document the root issues of Why & What Bickle & Ihop has done to perpetuate the deception there, & with that, Transmit it as Truth. It is not Truth, but of an Anti-Christ spirit: Here is a blog that addresses the issue quite well.:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=7574
“I am sorry to say contemplative prayer seems foundational to IHOP, which means much deception has occurred, and will continue to occur. As covered elsewhere, Mike Bickle wants Fire Within, a book promoting the teachings of Catholic contemplatives Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, to be the “manual for IHOP-KC.”
& another Blog; : Sola sisters;
Mike Bickle “claims that God is restoring contemplative prayer to the church. He goes on to claim that contemplative prayer is a God-ordained means of entering into the fullness of God, and that the brightest lights in church history have been Roman Catholic mystics who lived during the dark ages.”
Roman Catholic mystic Thomas Merton once compared Contemplative Spirituality Mysticism (CSM) to the same powerful experience generated by mind-altering drugs. Now, you might be wondering why the opinion of a deceased Roman Catholic mystic on an obscure sounding practice should matter to us today. It is for this reason: Contemplative Spirituality Mysticism is literally flooding into today’s churches through something called “Spiritual Formation.” Spiritual Formation, for those who’ve never heard of it, is being promoted in many of today’s evangelical churches as a way for Christians to draw closer to God. Christian leaders who are teaching or promoting Christian mysticism, know that the word “mysticism” has a negative, eastern connotation, and try to draw a distinction between “bad” mysticism and “good” mysticism. Obviously, to those pleading this case, “bad” mysticism would be occultic, and eastern in origin. But “good” mysticism (like Spiritual Formation, say its proponents) would be a type of mysticism that is Christian, biblical, and necessary for spiritual development.
The problem is that the Bible makes no such distinction between “good” and “bad” mysticism, which is a form of occultism. In fact, Spiritual Formation teaches the same “technique” for corralling and emptying the mind as that employed in eastern mantra meditation. To be clear, let me restate this: the technique used for silencing the mind in Spiritual Formation is identical to classic occultic meditation practices taught in Hinduism, Buddhism, wicca, paganism, etc. The technique goes something like this: find a quiet spot to sit or lie down, breathe deeply, and begin to focus on something for the purpose of stilling your thoughts. (The “something” can literally be almost anything: a candle, a word, a phrase, repetitive music, drumming, one’s own breath, etc.) After about 20 minutes of practicing this technique, which is simple to do, a person will enter into an altered state of consciousness. In this altered state of consciousness, the mind is no longer active and critically engaged, and able to assess data. In this state, the mind is passive, its God-given barriers down; it is able only to receive information, much like a radio receiver. Mystics from all faith traditions the world over often report ecstatic experiences of becoming yoked to some spiritual energy, leaving them feeling refreshed, energized, and peaceful after engaging in their mystical practices.”
http://solasisters.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-is-spiritual-formation.html
This is at the root of Bickle’s deception, and I believe he is very, very sincere; even adamant in his Mystical adherence. In fact, it is Satanic & ritualistic, & translates one devotion to God to one’s inner void, where the mind of fallen Adam lurks to usher you into another Nirvana; Satan’s Peace. Here Mike teaches about “Gazing” & the quieting of the soul, & the mechanics of Transcendentalism…..The key to mystic, cultic revelation. It is a lie & evil.
http://mikebickle.org/resources/resource/1529?return_url=http%3A%2F%2Fmikebickle.org%2Fresources%2Fcategory%2Fministry-outreach%2Fprophetic-ministry%2F
I do have escaped this places! But in my way back to a sober Christian life of studying the bible this story disturbs me…what is this story of Saul in 1.Samuel 10 all about?: (When Samuel appoints Saul to be the first King of Israel)
“After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, tambourines, flutes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.” (It happend a second time after God rejected him and regret chosing him to be a king)
…what do you think? What is “prophesy with them”? Or “the spirit of God will come upon you with power” as Samuel tells Saul before it happen. I have my own thoughts – but I guess you like to chew on this one as well, and maybe share your thoughts with me in the middle of exposing the unbiblical stuff going on in IHOP (it keeps me humble at least…)
I came across this lady, who was with Mike from the beginning. I met her in the early 90s….her name is Julie, & was influential in the Early Days of KCF, which birthed IHOP……….She now warns the unsuspecting of the History that Mike Bickle DOESN”T tell you….about the prophecies that proclaimed glory for the movement that failed; that were lies…..that were pivotal….& one in particular…..
Mike Bickle had a quadrapaligic brother named Pat, who was prophesied over & over that he would be healed…& then Revival Glory would be poured out, & the world would be shaken by this KC church….
Pat Bickle died of complications in early May of 2007, totally in love with Jesus.
In case you remain unfamiliar with a murder investigation involving a group of young people who held prayer meetings, although separate from I-HOP, and were so motivated to become involved with Mike Bickle they relocated from Texas. Two of the three young people involved in this relocated from their home state of Texas to attend Bickle’s KC-IHOP (Kansas City House of Prayer); Bethany Deaton was murdered by Micah Moore at the alleged direction of Tyler Deaton, see. Also, see; I hope some who commented on this article will find EZC to read the characteristic traits of a cult.
H/t from DiscernIt (below was reblogged from The Grey Coats)
BY JARROD JANUARY 14, 2010
Julie’s story:
My husband and I were a part of Kansas City Fellowship from it’s inception, until 1990. Here’s our story.
We were part of the original church that Mike Bickle started in the early 80′s called Kansas City Fellowship. In fact, when Mike first arrived in Kansas City, he spoke at a women’s bible study that I was attending at the time. It was the first time I had heard contemplative prayer taught. I was so intrigued by his teaching, I made it a point to attend his soon to be new church.
From the church’s early beginnings, we were wowed by the fact that this church seemed to be commissioned by God. We were encouraged to read about the modern revivals, such as Azuza Street, and modern revivalists, such as Mary Woodworth Edder, and Charles Finney. We were also encouraged to read about the life of David Brainerd, especially his devotion to prayer. Also on the list of required reading were all of Kenneth Hagin’s books. All of this was to prepare us for the coming revival in knowing what to expect.
A point I wish to make, in regards to KCF’s beginnings, is the original prophet who spoke to Mike back in St. Louis. This man prophesied that Mike needed to move to Kansas City to begin this new move of God. His name was Augustine Acolla. He was later dismissed as somewhat false when a certain prophecy never came to pass. He was also later discovered to have a hidden homosexual lifestyle what was exposed before he passed away, but he needs to be included in the Kansas City Prophets head count, as he was highly esteemed and credited from the beginning as a true prophet.
Mike’s main focus, in the early days, was to pray for God to pour out His holy spirit as he did in the days of Acts. During the first year when Bob Jones came on the scene, this focus remained the same with the added oooing and awwwwing associated with having our own resident prophet. We were so flattered regarding our calling to be THE group that would usher in the revival to beat all revivals. He told us that we had been invited to pray this thing in. He had all kinds of remarkable tales of God having promised him, through the years, that a generation would arise in his (Bob’s) future that would someday receive him. And we were that people.
During the first year of the fellowship, a solumn assembly was called, the first of several, where we were called to fast and pray for twenty-one days, at the end of which, the Lord was going to fill us with his holy spirit as he did on the day of pentecost. So, fast and pray we did. This commission purportedly came about when both Mike, and Bob Jones, received a personal visitation from the angel, Gabriel, who gave both of them the same scripture, which was Daniel Chapter 9. The angel told both of them of the need for this solemn assembly to take place. We began the fast which was to conclude at the end of May. We spent many days and nights binding and loosing territorial spirits in order to open up the heavenlies so God could pour his spirit down. [Pray that those involved in this read between the lines, and discern the hissing of the serpent, we know Satan seeks worship as 'god'; hence, since Eden he capitalizes on mankind's arrogance, a fatal flaw that, until salvation, all of humankind have in common with the him. God indwells His Bride, the truly redeemed; thus, He is ALREADY working on earth through the saints to both to will and to do of His good pleasure. What's His pleasure? That we proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and bear fruit while 'on assignment' until brought to His side at death or glorification. NO SCRIPTURE suggests "binding and loosing" territorial spirits; in fact, Daniel was told that the king of Persia (Iran) and Grecia are over those nations (Dan 10:11-13). Gabriel conveyed to the prophet Daniel his wrestling these demonic entities until Michael the Archangel helped free him to deliver God's answer to Daniel's prayer. If saints indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God are to 'bind and loose' so-called 'territorial spirits' would not this portion of scripture be where one would expect God to issue this command? Moreover, angels are servants of the Lord, YHVH Sabaoth, they do the bidding of no man! Fallen angels, likewise, do no more or less than God permits.]*
At the end of the fast, absolutely nothing happened. That’s when the focus began to somewhat change. It was discovered, by the leadership, that we didn’t have the proper wineskin in place to receive the new wine promised by the angel Gabriel. So, continuing our routine to pray every night and day for the Lord to send his spirit, we began to receive teaching entitled “commitment classes” which lasted for about two years. Absolutely anyone who wanted to participate in any kind of ministry at the church, be it on the worship team, or volunteering with the children, had to undergo these classes. The gist of the teaching was church government and how the city needed an apostolic leader over all the churches in order for the believers to contain this level of annointing. I kid you not. These were the most boring classes to attend, but attend them we did, because everyone, and I mean everyone didn’t want to miss this “move of God”, and everyone wanted a leadership type position.
It was during this time that the prophets were on the move, prophesying to churches to submit to Mike, or else they’d be left out. It was also at this time that my band I began to become seriously confused. Our lives began to grow too busy to attend the nightly prayer meetings any longer. We were a young growing family with toddlers to raise. The prophesies were confusing and very “cosmic” in nature. The ones that were clear enough to follow, weren’t coming to pass.
Also, those of us attending the nightly prayers meetings were seeing the original “vision” change. We were on board for the “pray night and day until” vision, but the rules kept changing, and Mike was becoming a sensation. It seemed that MANY ministries throughout the United States, and even England, were embracing his “city church” vision, and were equally wowed by the prophets. When the Vineyard began showing interest, they appeared more influenced by Mike and the prophets, than the other way around.
One other important fact that never gets mentioned, and has since been removed from the history. Mike had a paraplegic brother named Pat whom we were close to. Pat always attended the evening prayer meetings which we also attended. Keep in mind, the early prayer movement was very sparce, a far cry from what it looks like today. Just a dozen or so faithful regularly attended. As a result, we got to know one another pretty well. Well, amongst all the prophecies and promises of the spirit being poured out on us, there was ALWAYS the promise that Pat would be healed. So often was that promise repeated that we spoke of it as a “given.” All of the prophets mentioned it numerous times. In fact, it was going to be THE EVENT that started the whole ball rolling.
Sadly, Pat passed away a few years ago. More sadly, however, is how this often stated prophecy, at least how pivotal it was, was erased from the history. Now, when new IHOPers listen to the 18 plus hours of how IHOP came to be, they won’t know about Pat and that profound promise that we hoped for in his healing.
It was at this time that my husband and I set aside all the nonsense we had been taught, and turned to the scriptures, alone, for guidance. The Lord graciously revealed the Gospel to us and our confusion ceased. We knew, clearly enough, that this message of the Cross was not being preached, nor was it ever preached. My husband tried to talk to Mike about it a number of times, but was not received well. When Ernie Gruen preached his memorable sermon “Do we keep smiling and say nothing,” we left. His sermon helped us see the error of the whole prophetic thing.
Back then, I assumed that this whole thing would just fizzle out. How wrong I was. We now have grown children who rub elbows with other grown children influenced by IHOP. While our children have been taught the error of this movement, I find it necessary to reteach the “why’s” of whats wrong with all of this, especially since so many churches here in Kansas City have people in their congregations who also attend IHOP. And now with the “student awakening” under way, it’s all the buzz in local christian circles.
I need to clarify a few points regarding Pat Bickle. He was actually a quadraplegic, not a paraplegic. Also, it was through Pat’s wife that we learned of the histories regarding Pat, and the prophecies of his healing, being removed from the newer additions of Mike’s books and history tapes. I haven’t listened, personally to these new histories, nor have I read any of Mike’s new additions to his books. This point might need further clarification.
I hope this testimony is somehow helpful to persons who are doubting this movement.
Source: http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2010/01/14/julies-story/
“What, in my mind, invalidates the IHOP ministry is a claim to a so-called “Prophetic History” that is frequently revised to eliminate failed prophecies and to portray the founding of the movement in a better light..”
This is a good read to understand just how much false prophecy was used to lure people to believe in Mike’s vision, [ including Pat Bickle's healing & coming revival...] & how very little was repented of when discovered false. This very lying history is used today to seduce the many trusting IHOP interns to believe that IHOP HAS to be of God.; It could not be of anything other!
Joseph Smith spoke of the angel Moroni, the golden plates, & the magic spectacles. If one believed this, IT HAD TO BE OF GOD!
There were many, many prophecies that failed…maybe all of them at IHOP, including Pat’s, but twisted as true all in order to maintain their status as a valid Neo-Christian Training Monastery …..when in reality, it is Cult/Babylon.
http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2011/09/david-pytches-some-said-it-thundered.html…
Thanks Tom, Julie is a friend of mine and she follows this blog!
I was involved with IHOP for six years . What finally led me to question IHOP’ s teaching and different emphases were Jesus’ words, “By their fruit you will know them.” The fruit of the three main founding prophets ( Augustine Alcala, Paul Cain, and Bob Jones) is very bad: Augustine and Paul Cain are unrepentant homosexuals (Mike is public on his admission that Cain has not repented), and Bob Jones not only stumbled in sexual immorality but later mentored Todd Bentley, who divorced his wife and married the woman with whom he was having an adulterous affair. For anyone who is currently an IHOPer, do not be afraid to question the fruit of these men’s lives . It is a serious matter that you must be able to answer biblically should you remain with IHOP. The most common answer I have heard is that these men were like David in that they genuinely repented; I believe this is an erroneous conclusion that draws illogical parallels between David’ s life and these prophets . David’ s repentance showed humility and acceptance of the consequences of his sin . Please seek it out .
A couple last thoughts: if the idea that the IHOP prophets could possibly be false prophets causes you to grow defensive or a little frightened, consider how you feel . A Christian secure in the promises of God and the gospel of Christ would not be shaken in the least if if it was discovered IHOP was founded on false premises- it would not affect that person’ s calling to proclaim the gospel and make disciples . If, however, you would seriously question your beliefs if the prophets were false consider that you may be putting your faith in something other than God . Finally, a prophet’ s accuracy is not the only criteria that proves he is from the Lord . In fact, it means very little if not paired with a clear message of holiness according to the grace found in the gospel .
I have truly enjoyed coming out from under the religious spirit and false ideas of what is truly spiritual that so oppressed me at IHOP and still do to some extent . Jesus is saving me from it all, and He can save you too, if you humble yourself .
By those definitions, almost all of modern American Christianity is a cult.
I was a part of IHOP for six years as well. Some theology I was taught there was actually spot on. It was brilliant. There are definitely points where it filled in the gaps in my biblical understanding, for sure. I knew from hermeneutics and church history that it was solid. I had just never seen it that way before. (Heck, similar things had happened to me throughout my life, at Bible college, at Sunday school, at camp, etc. )Other stuff I just rolled my eyes at. I had prior extensive training in theology, etc. and had carried a sense of “calling to ministry” since I was a small child.
Leaving IHOP was very much like leaving the church (I have done both). It was done graciously and quietly. It was a process of examining what I believed and deciding to step back and consider an outside perspective with honesty, rather than clutching to my presuppositions.
To be fair, it was easier with IHOP, because aside from some of their legitimately good teachings (rooted in Scripture and not IHOP-centered), I never really bought it. I rolled my eyes at a lot of the hoopla, but kept my criticisms to myself unless directly asked. I saw their sincerity, and I saw lives that were transformed, etc., in spite of IHOP’s more obvious faults and shortcomings… kind of like the Church in general, wouldn’t you say?
We have so many denominations started on sketchy grounds that are now mainstream. There are so many denominations, period, because there are so many ways to interpret Scripture. This is also largely driven by culture. In other words, I am asking you (ironically, as now an atheist) to please not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Is IHOP a little screwy? Yeah. Most of the problems I saw, though, were caused by a “religious spirit” and not by any controversy or compulsion around Bickle or IHOP’s beginnings and more dubious claims. In day to day life on staff, the bigger struggle is definitely with Religion, if you follow. Feeling a pressure (not toward your fellow missionaries, or toward Bickle, but toward God Himself) to perform a certain way. You have to pray “enough,” fast “enough,” etc. Though legitimate, Biblical grace is taught with abundance, there is still very much a performance culture under the surface. There is a lot of insecurity, and many current and former staff members will admit to struggling with depression during their time on staff at IHOP, myself included.
You are told of the power of prayer, but no prayers are answered– neither the corporate ones, nor the ones in your own personal, agonized quiet times.
I spent six years of my life set aside to “seek the Lord” in a very focused, intentional way. This is why I came to IHOP and put up with their silliness, as it was a good place to do that. I was hungry for God. I had finished my theological and ministry training, but wanted to spend a season “waiting on the Lord” before I stepped out on my own, so to speak. To never have an answer, to pray to a steel ceiling, so to speak… I thought it would be different. My previous quiet times before IHOP were lengthy, sincere, and agonized. God never seemed to “show up,” if you will. There was no comfort, no answers– not to questions or requests. I thought at IHOP it would be different. It was worse.
One big fault of IHOP is that they lack community. It’s like… living in Colorado. So many people move out there with the lofty vision of “living in the mountains” that they end up building fences and ignoring their neighbors. IHOP is similar. It draws people seeking a mountaintop experience with God. When they discover the “mountain” is crowded, it’s like they put blinders on and ignore their neighbors. There is not a sense of community, period.
I could rant more. I’d like to stay anonymous, though. My Christian friends (with a few, trusted exceptions) do not know about my atheism. These days, that’s like having a big “A” on your chest. I may as well say I kick puppies and text with Satan on the weekends.