This post was taken from a recent comment on another post. Another former member of IHOP, and also a former leader declaring that IHOP is a cult. It is sincere and heartfelt and I wanted to share it with the readers of this blog. The author goes by the name “Prefer not to state name”.
Being part of IHOP-KC for over 8 years and being part of the leadership for over 6 of those years, I have to disagree with you. IHOP-KC is like any other cult - or maybe that is too fierce of a word. Jehovah’s Witness, or Mormon type of religion might be a better category to place these IHOPers in.
Are they saved? Oh yes, of course they will be with Jesus in the next life. But the foundational - so called prophetic words that much of what make up this 24/7 prayer room are not based on foundational truths, and many of them have been changed throughout the beginning of IHOP-KC when we, (yes we), started in a trailer because, well.. the prophecies did not happen and many men involved were not walking in truth at that time.
Examples: Honey, I have more than I can write in a blog. I lived it. Where what they are doing is in scripture, at least a lot of it, it is based out of the old covenant and not the finished work of the cross. Galatians would be a good book to compare them to. When Paul returned to find their doctrines tainted. As far as many of the leaders (now) and teachers of IHOPU, “money” would be a great word… What would all of these people do if IHOP-KC ended tomorrow? Would these teachers and leaders be able to get jobs to support their families? What about the kids in this ministry and the rock star wannabes? Over 80 percent of them do not know how to function outside of the bubble and lack social skills and job training.
Prayer is a good thing, and I probably wouldn't mind IHOP-KC so much if all they did was to provide a place of worship to the Lord. But they don’t. There are so many deeper workings that happen there which are being sent all over the world and country. Yes, IHOP is a missions base where people come to get equipped and then get sent out.
Regarding fasting… Oh how I fasted. So much that my insides, even today, still have medical issues...and they will tell you that they make no one fast, that it is a choice - but remember these people are seeking acceptance and want to feel like they belong somewhere when they use those tactics, (to make you think you are fasting so that your heart is more tender for God), but you are actually fasting for all the wrong reasons (one of which is being accepted by the leaders and teachers and peers).
People come and are then sent out "by God" so multiplication of a thwarted, Christian message goes out across the world...sound familiar? What troubles me is that many Christians, like CBN, 700 Club and others, do not know the entire story and what exactly happens in this place - so they only report what appears to be truth....A real reporter would come into the community, try to be part of the community, and then would see IHOP is a cult. But for every person that does escape this stronghold, and tests the teachings, and really seeks truth, they do eventually find it and learn to walk in the freedom Jesus came to give us.
Mike Bickle, and I can mention many others, have their own agendas now. And while they will coat things to make people believe what they teach is scriptural, I thank God that I searched and was one like many, many others that have left IHOP because we asked Father God to show us truth and the veils were removed. The lies were uncovered, the money scams undone.
So when many say this is a place that one can go deeper. Yes, it is, but only if you seek the truth in the scriptures by His Spirit and not the interpretations that someone twists them for all to believe. If you seek, this place is a place where you can actually say that God uses ALL things, even bad things, for your good for those that are in Him. I have a friend that was a Jehovah’s Witness. In his seeking scriptures vs. what was being taught to him, he is now on fire for God because he walks in the freedom that Jesus died and rose again to give us. IHOP-KC does more damage than good for the kids seeking the Lord. It thwarts their thinking and even relationship with Jesus and the Father.
Where a ministry is there to help the community and offer fellowship and truth, IHOP -KC does none of the above. Right now they have many people fooled but God is God and in the end He will have the last word and all these people that are still in bondage will know the truth of what living a wasted life truly is. Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on Mike Bickle, David Sliker, Corey Russell and all the ones associated with this ministry. Have mercy and have your people seek the truth that they may walk in the freedom you paid for them by the cross.
I am grateful to the brave person who wrote this testimony. I have a question for them if they are able to respond. It appears that the leadership has not been able to hear correction from other persons, even those within the group. Were you able to meet with, and state your concerns, to those on the top rung of the ladder, so to speak, and how were your stated concerns received? I think I already know the answer, but would like to hear your response, nonetheless. Thanks, again, for sharing this.
Praise God for your testimony. It encouraged me so much. May it be used to bring others to the truth. I was in a kingdom Now heavy shepherding- Toronto style church for 5 years. God lifted the veil and I was able to see the truth. Still have alot of friends that I love in the movement. I often pray they too will come out of the darkness into the light.
I semi-disagree with this: “Are they saved? Oh yes, of course they will be with Jesus in the next life.”
I’m reminded of the scripture where those attempting to enter heaven are saying, “Lord, Lord, didn’t we cast out demons in your name? Didn’t we do great and mighty miracles in your name?” And He will say to them, “Depart from me, you workers of iniquity. I never knew you.”
Needless to say, I hope this anonymous writer is correct..
I have a friend deeply involved with IHOP and all who are associated with this “movement” and when I told her that her third heaven visits were the same as astral travel, and that Chuck Pierce was teachings were too similar to the kaballah, she will not speak to me.
Are they saved? Oh yes, of course they will be with Jesus in the next life.
I too disagree with this statement. Know one really knows the heart like the Lord does. We cannot judge (or make the determination if a person is saved or not) where their going to be. In fact if you state this as you did then we might as well say the same thing about those listed in the cults as well, mormon, JW, etc.
It is a great thing to come out of false teaching and to find forgiveness. When and if Bickle does the same it will be wonderful. We are not told to accept anyone who comes in the name of the Lord. We are told that many will and will be great deceivers. We are told we will know who is true by their fruit. IHOP has bad fruit. To continue to make excuses is to continue in the deception.
Thank you for being brave enough to write this. I too was fooled and spent a wasted 7 years at IHOP. I would search the scriptures and ask questions and refuse to fast since I was not doing well with my insides and had gone down to 84 pounds but I continued thought it was me not them. My parents loved that I was in God so they supported me when no-one else would and I had no money and had to share a house with 14 people in Grandview which I later found out was against the law to do but so many do it anyway. I got free, and now am finally feeling His love and passion for the Church, his bride. Maybe one day I too can share more of my encounter for now I need to learn to live outside in the real world. I am currently in a shelter and do you believe not one person and when I went to the office to ask for assistance none was given to me. Recently I researched a site that tells you how much salaries a non-profit makes and well I was surprised and disappointed to see the figures that Mike Bickle, Allen Hood, Misty Edwards and so many others make and this was not donations that was listed in another area…when I sat in so many of those meetings when I listened to them preach that they did not receive anything when I also recently found out that all the land they have purchased is under Diane and Michael Bickle and not the church…I cried for days how deceived I have been. How deceived. I hope oneday I can share my full testimony and help set others free…
Always research a matter:
Google: abused by name of church
Google: abused by name of leader
Google: name of church and or leader, people’s negative feedback
Google: name of church and or leader, controversial articles
report church/leadership abuse to rickross.com, charisma magazine,
wittenburg door/Trinity Foundation, Dallas, TX, James Sundquist etc.,
BBG,
That is wise to do, but then again anyone can write anything on the internet. One must always use caution, and Biblical guidelines and discernment…… and then the internet as a resource! First hand testimonies are most valid!
B. Runner,
I’m so glad you got out and are sorting out your life. It is always difficult when leaving a cult-like environment, esp. where we let others do our thinking for us. Can you send me the link to the site that you visitied that listed the salaries? I would like to see that.
thanks!
TS
email: wolvesamongthesheep@yahoo.com
See the links to guidestar at
http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2007/10/kcf-kansas-city-finances.html?showComment=1301057705449#c2326827518343266219
Truthspeaker: per your 3/15/2011 note:
That’s RIGHT, EVERYONE is to discern, weigh it out by scripture maybe up the road you might be exposed also. You NEVER know, there has to be accountability, obviously Mike Bickle and Staff is off the charts and unfortunately Charisma did a November Cover 2010 without researching a matter so they became complicit; worse they knew better because editor had emails of people’s complaints of IHOPrayer.
This blog wasn’t written well in the paragraph at all “are they saved”; weigh that out with scripture. Problem has been, no one is researching a matter, I’ve been a stupid christian. I wanted to believe that my pastor was looking out for the best and not lying teaching heresies instead of being the wolf, hireling, false shepherd that he was and into money/power. The reason why the church as a whole is so sick is because no one questions, they’re content to be brainwashed and not read their Bible. If, they do and question they get labeled and thrown out and or asked to leave, guilt, condemnation, criticism, cursing and labeled.
If, the blogs are wrong, you can sue for libel, slander and deformation of character. Stupid christian would come back and say you can’t sue your brother; Matthew 12:50 and Mark 3:35 answers that.
Think this site is one of the best exposing IHOP http://ihopisnewage.wordpress.com/along with pitchblog and topix.com etc.,
Comes back to this: David Wilkerson did a survey in 1992 of wanting to know what your church was like and 9 years later he apologized because he didn’t believe what people were telling him (isn’t that like the days of Hitler, evil and no-one believing the atrocities). All those people didn’t know each other, they were from all over the country; so it’s the same for people coming and exposing IHOPrayer like notunlikelee.wordpress.com. Ariel’s account on endtimepropheticwordpress.com is very disturbing. Thank God for the internet. Problem I have with endtime blog is they don’t post major denominations and chuck smith sr./jr aren’t posted; so you’re going to have to post on rickross.com.
Why shouldn’t abuses be exposed? People consider IHOPrayer a cult so is the Assemblies of God and Foursquare, they exist because brainwashed sheep haven’t researched a matter, their history, their teachings, habitually lie where the money goes and what they do with it not to mention all the child molesting that’s hid and all the manipulation and control and abuse to keep you sick, in bondage and suppressed, oppressed, read James Sunquist site/blog/comments finally some coming forth. Instead of just attending and tithing and not questioning that you could have sat in the movements and they would have never gone through the Bible completely once, prayer is talked about, never done, humility/repentance is not a way of life and it should be. Very self-righteous, pious, were better than everyone else attitude. Foundations are carnal=flesh=man. Very sad and people raise their children to keep the regime’s going and it becomes a “country club that carries a bible”. Don’t Call Me Brother by Austin Miles depicts them really well along with his book letters in response to the first book.
People need to wake up and read their Bible and research a matter and not attend and just go because they want to be brainwashed and cannot and chose not and will not think for themselves.
bbg,
I have to agree with you! Esp. here you said: “The reason why the church as a whole is so sick is because no one questions, they’re content to be brainwashed and not read their Bible. If, they do and question they get labeled and thrown out and or asked to leave, guilt, condemnation, criticism, cursing and labeled. ”
Well, that’s exactly what cults do…. and shunning is a common practice among spiritually abusive groups. It’s very important to remove all discordant voices from the sheeple’s brains, therefore they get them to shun anyone who disagrees with the group. (Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Scientologists and even the Amish do it) My friend, who writes the IHOP is New Age blog had a son in IHOP who did not speak to them for over 3 years!
Truthspeaker and commenters:
501c3 Non-Profit Organizations are public record. Either order from your State IRS and or Secretary of State Department. Having worked for such an organization, they give out a copy that goes to the pubic that DOES NOT HAVE EVERYTHING reported to who handles 501c3 status (call those dummy/fudged reports=non-truth). I would order from inception (any ministry), just to see what they’ve been doing with the money and the salary increases. “Sheeple”, do not follow up with how much money goes to the poor, fatherless, widow, orphan, single parents/children, homeless etc., most churches are self-serving organizations and businesses for themselves.
Amazing how people give blindly and do not question where the money goes and what they do with it. Grew up in church organization that constantly lied what they did with the money and the second offering that you thought went to whatever fund raising project or the guest speaker only got a percentage of offering rather than all that we thought (guess that pastor forgot to read in the Bible all liars go to hell, maybe he think he’s exempt because he thinks he’s the pastor)? Can you imagine a pastor stands up and says he needs a million a month to keep the building going for what? Dead methods, dead program and they only have how times a week and your slaving all week at work and all that goes with the family and you tithed for years and when you lose your job/house and ask for help they’ll say we’ll pray for you as they preyed on you alright or refer you to welfare; very sobering reality. The people are paying for his house, children’s education, travel, expenses, cars, but the false church isn’t helping you at all. Look at all the bragger’s on TBN, regarding large homes, what they own, worth, planes, etc., they want you to bring in money for themselves.
Example: Men have told me they had to work to jobs for their wives to keep TBN and Benny Hinn in their lifestyle and you don’t look at what they own and what they are worth? God does NOT get any money and neither do the poor (TBN has what one fund raiser orphanage for all the gross millions that they take in not to mention both entities total worth; give you people who know they lie-Trinity Foundation, Dallas TX and Wittenburg Door etc., know people who have asked for help and NO help whatsoever).
Los Angeles Times 9/19-20/04 exposes one entity and people still give; it was the truth and so-called christians wanted to call it a lie, why and what for? Wittenburg Door (archive article) one of the best exposes on Mr. Hinn and or David Wegner-DVD.
That’s why like rickross everything from a-z, George Barna, Dr. Ron Enroth; in fact I’m going to start researching and give him every blog and newspaper expose on ministries; look at InPlainSite.org; look at the abuses of those ministries and people still give and rob from their families and that’s covered in Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola. Can you/we/I think for ourselves? What pastor’s salary was paid $10,000.00 a month and $80,000.00 year end bonus and in homosexual, drug scandal to boot and when Mark Taylor’s mom asked for help she did not get it from this church (he was the 1st victim of columbine)? No pastor should live better than his sheep; what pastor is worth that and why?
Problem, people don’t know what a true church looks like. Watch TBN for a week and write out what every speaker says and what’s at the end of that most of it’s air, fluff, stuff, dead rhetoric; they’re still in business! “10 Lies the Church Tells Women by J. Lee Grady and When Women Were Priests by Karen Jo Torjesen”; we tolerate the church lying to us? How many single parents (people in general) with children have left the church and killed themselves because of wrong advice, meaning there is no help whatsoever in the church and we tithed to that and attended; that could have been our mother, sister, niece, aunt, daughter and that’s acceptable?
Building their own empires, dynasty’s and people still attend and give, that’s amazing!
Sad, really sad. Salary issues of all ministries were addressed hardcore 3/2000 and ongoing and still no change and nothing done, if NOTHING the abuses have increased (some churches/ministries have billions in accounts and they’re NOT helping the people at all, it’s a sham/scam for their lifestyles). Can so-called christians possibly be that stupid to tithe to the used car salesman selling up a very dead religion, their own?
Been getting unbrainwashed for years and thinking for myself and not following the false shepherd/hireling over the cliff and into hell, NOT AT ALL!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/books/review/Oppenheimer-t.html (look at what he exposes and notice how the people behave and it’s still going on today)!
Truthspeaker:
Go to Dr. Ron Enroth’s site (Westmont College, Santa Barbara, CA) and he has an article posted; if it’s not there, call him and tell him to re-post. I’ve talked with him about church abuse, eventually going to archive all my articles and letters and give him a copy of what’s been confronted since March 2000 and ongoing. That’s a big lament of mine is they go after the youth and then divide the family and use scripture to do so and that’s covered really well in “Don’t Call Me Brother” by Austin Miles . It’s got to be grievous for both sides, the side that see’s and the one’s who can’t (and brainwashed in it). Most so-called christians, “can’t handle the truth”.
Church Leadership was told 2004 that no more abusing people; if I heard about it, experienced it, got emails (protect the people, if they want to come public they have the list to report church abuse) and if hirelings endorsed oral sex and or sodomy (counseling, banquets, sunday school classes, pulpit) and or prayed for anyone to die (imprecatory prayers=Google that and look at all the so-called pastors making the news) that they would have to deal with or else. There has to be accountability. My friends have seen it, I’ve gotten thrown out (worse I’ve just walked in the door); asked to leave, have spies sit around me and have death threats also for exposing the false corrupt church. Google: ripoffreport.com, search box put in John Paul Jackson and above the two reports that come up, click on ALL 5; what Tammy has complained about I’ve gone through with vineyardites and healing room people. Someone needs to explain to vcfites (not Bible based) and all those ministries that did what they did to Tammy, what it is to be a christian and that they need to teach the Bible.
If, so-called Christians want their 15 minutes of fame, keep abusing people in the guise of christianity and how do you think you’re not going to make world-wide news and or someone’s book and or news article and or newspaper, radio, magazine, T.V.; every media outlet, House/Senate; IRS why they should be labeled a cult, better yet on a post-card. Why aren’t you thinking of what you/we/I do might not go public. God has his justices. We’re NOT looking at fruit, we’re looking at gifts (some churches vying for position and gifting and where you have envy and strife you have confusion and every evil work=every)! Awful is the gossip in the so-called church; realized with that, people who gossip don’t take responsibility for their own lives, live their lives through others and are very unhappy people (been there, done that and bought the t-shirt).
Cult has a “complete and utter disdain for correction” and sad to say, that’s the majority of churches and their leadership. Characteristic of a cult, is if you corrected church in Anaheim, CA you could be in the mid-west or back-east and they will bad mouth you from city to city and state to state, it’s protect the dynasty (lies) at any cost and hope they don’t die nasty. Is IHOPrayer operating the same way? Reading all the reports by Stephanie, Ariel, Annunk etc., and the comments by others yes they are! Spy system, aren’t we questioning who the warlock is that they report to? I’ll get slammed for this, most churches/leadership hate God and the Bible! So, why are we staying and tithing and keeping them in their business? Another trait of a cult, you’re not even in their churches, you’re in another church and or home-fellowship and those octopus tentacles come and destroy you where-ever your at (remind so-called christians you can sue for libel/slander and deformation of character).
Someone called me up and said Rick Ross was on a famous talk show; wondering who he was going to name because it came out that A&E is doing a special on cults and it’s about corrupt churches/ministries. With single parents leaving churches and killing themselves because their pastor gives wrong advice, someone could do a documentary on that (I’ve asked people to go in with camera’s and do that and start interviewing single parents, widows, homeless anyone that’s asked help from a church and gotten refused help). Believe 2004/2005 gave a list of dire straight needs of people to heads of church leadership and so far believe eight are deceased (they’d rather let them die than help; they don’t want their time and or money going that way)? It has to be about people, healthy, strong people/families, doing charity, social, humanity and education; not keeping them sick, suppressed, bondage, abused, oppressed and using the Bible to manipulate and control and brainwash=lies.
I’ve only seen 20 minutes of “Jesus Save Us From Your Followers” by Dan Merchant? Attended a church in Tustin, CA that was showing short reels every Sunday of some man going to the streets and asking all kinds of people about christians, very eye opening=grievous. Someone told me there was this book: Christian that you Wouldn’t Want to be One, to the tune of and I said, I could be in that book in my earlier self-righteous, pious, we were better than everyone else days because the whole body of the fish stunk from the head; that mentality was in leadership so that was over the people (dazed, space cadets, living in la la land with rose-colored glasses on worshiping the pastor, building, dead methods, dead programs over God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit). II Corinthians 1:2-14
Another thing a cult does is bash counseling (don’t go to their counsel), if you go to correct council you might get unbrainwashed and realize you’re in a cult (you have to be wise about correct council because there is a lot of wrong evil council, the other side of the coin there is a lot of good).
How does Mike Bickle, Rick Joyner, Lou Engle and ANY ministry think that someone might not come in and do a documentary film and expose and do interviews on “Ariel (endtimepropheticwordpress.com), Google: Annunk”, http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/testimony-of-a-former-ihop-kc-attendee-stephanie/comment-page-1/; http://iftruthbeknown.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/the-toronto-deception/ and all the blog sites-interview those people forever in history, burned in pen/ink in book etc., Go on the media, news outlets and ask people to come forward, guess they think they’re above reproach?
Another tactic cult does: Thou Shalt Not Judge, cult mentality. Wrote one of the best ever seen backed up with scripture: “The Cult of “Do Not Judge” By Will Barnes-5 Jul 2006. Also, if want foundations of great teachers in Apostolic and the Prophetic it would be Arthur Katz’s and Leonard Ravenhill’s written works consider them the best so far!
Close: One summer news was lot’s of elderly passed away because of heat; winter, those that freeze to death (homeless mainly). 268 children killed themselves in group homes in 19 months (10-11-09 Los Angeles Times, archives article), book “Sometimes if God has a Kid’s Face by B. Ritter and where is the church in all this? IHOPrayers group comes together thinking they have the worship portal to heaven and or God (which god?) while people are going to hell in a hand-basket. But, oh were singing and gathering; “last day ministries” has this awesome picture of a worship band as people are drowning and dying but they’re worshiping as how many in the news/world are lost without God, same for IHOPrayer? How is God going to view all that on Judgment Day? How fearful it will be (they have no fear of the Lord, therefore no wisdom it’s scriptural)! You better know your Bible, also correct with the Bible.
What’s really evil, is Mike Bickle, Rick Joyner, J. Lee Grady (list of others) knew how churches operated like this for YEARS and they’re repeating the same dogma-unreal! “Sin makes you stupid”, yes it does! I’m so glad saw it, got out and didn’t drink the Kool-aid so to speak. Pray for those that are still can’t see it, that they can/will and get out. PRAY, “More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of” and it’s ok to say it (meaning, correct situation)!
I saw this and was totally amazed, you see every atheist in the world today will tell you that any church body is a Cult. Stop with the Judgemental attitudes my friends, we are all flip sides of the same coin. God is great, he doesnt need defending or protection, he is NOT looking for your devotion to TEARING down fellow beleivers. He wants you all to be a good tree, just fall totally into his arms of grace mercy and love, do as he asks you and root YOURSELVES in his word. Psalm 1, Colosions 2:7, and Ephesians 3:17…
Whoever wrote this needs to have enough courage to put their name and say who they actually are and not just leave a testimony like this for people to take as fact. My bet is you were no more an IHOP leader than I was the Pope.
You know, I see a lot of your opinions and empty accuations without any specific examples, and I see how you had a bad experience, but I see maybe 1 or 2 scriptures in this whole article. I don’t care about your opinion, and am sorry you had a bad experience, but neither mean that IHOP or any other organization under discussion are condemned. It’s God’s Word that holds the authority (All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. 2 Tim 3:16) so use that. That was Martin Luther’s plea to the catholic church… if you disagree show me chapter and verse! You say they should be going by scripture, but you don’t use scripture in your argument. I’ve never even been to IHOP, but this was so deceiving loaded with personal perspective and lack of real argument with scripture or substance, I had to write this. All that said, I’m sure you had a legitimate reason to be upset with them especially after having health issues from fasting, but again at least use scripture and give specific examples. To me it just sounds like IHOP needs more individuals to help pastor/shepherd people through and process what’s going on around them so people don’t get hurt by their own zeal that is not of the Spirit. But I say this for IHOP and for ANY ministry or church: “Do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. ” Matt 23:8-10, we can’t call any ministry our source, cause HE is our source through the Word of God and the Spirit (John 14:26). What of all the dead churches in this world? Why aren’t we blogging about them? There’s probably 15 churches within a couple miles of me that are in far greater danger of the wrath of God than IHOP who actually has people who are really seeking God (“I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.” Rev. 3:15-16). At least they create an environment to seek Jesus (“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.” Matt 7:7 seek is the present progressive verb tense, seek and keep on seeking…). That’s it I won’t go on any more…
@Chris the negative comments for the most part made of IHOP are true. 1. The foundation of how this ministry started are lies, I won’t go through each one listen to the encountering jesus cds and question and seekk God for the truth. 2. Their interpertaion of the Bridal Paradim just seek the truth. 3. Mike and Dianne Bickle living the fasted lifestyle and live in a townhouse behing the prayer room …seek and search city records they own a lot more than that townhouse buddy. 4. Lies that the leadership makes zero salaries. They all for the most part make a hefty salary Misty last time we looked at financial records 67K, Mike 84; Allen Hood 88…and that does not include support coming in.5. Cult like behavior gearing towards the young and niave twisting many scriptures not all but enough if you don’t really seek the truth. 6. Dude…I wasted already much of my life with this cult that to the outsider that does not think for themselves it looks great…..even the conference junkies but once you are in and hooked guess what happens another blogger said it for me you get hoodwinked. I can go and on with details but I won’t, those that want the truth will seek it for themselves those that don’t. Will disregard this warning and claim I need more facts and continue to be hoodwinked and live in bondage. I am now officially an exihopper. PTL Praise the Lord.
Liz and others: I have been contacted by a NY Times reporter who is doing a piece on IHOP and would like to speak to former members who think IHOP is a cult. If you would like to talk to him please email me at wolvesamongthesheep@yahoo.com
@chris you have no clue and also are not one that seeks truth. Here is this person sharing their story and you disregard it all because they don’t write their name on it. What do you know or have experienced in cults? Have you ever lived among your abusers and turned them in only to be threatened because you were in leadership “this is my ministry” and no one is going to bring me down. Yes sir this happened to me and the threats were taken to police and then denied by all Bickle followers. Its you against a whole group of devoted followers that will lie to make sure their money salary power and positions are not touched. I have been there and had to walk away from my house across the street practically from the missions base losing it all because of these assholes, yes assholes. But God knows and he warns us to not be deceived many will come with thousands following them saying and doing wonderful acts but God won’t be in it…..this place is deception Chris. Do your research be open to the truth if you can handle it and it will be all there for anyone to see. Seek truth! If anyone wants to know who I am my name is Michelle Marque and I was taken for a ride by IHOP, Bickle and the Lou Engle greed and deception train for 5 years.But now after leaving that place I am really living the life In Christ, In the Blood with the Father that He always wanted me to live. Please let this help anyone coming to IHOP to stop and research a matter diligently before becoming part of something that is borderline demonic.
Alright, I am currently at IHOP and I have to say that all of this is pretty ridiculous. First of all I can tell you that the people accused of being making these bug salaries simply don’t. I do not know Mike Bickle personally, but I do know Allen Hood; and I can tell you with confidence that he does not make that much money. All I’m saying is that think before you falsely accuse.
Alright I am part of ihop right now and have been here for five years. And this is not a cult. Everyone can come and leave as they please. There is no one here that is forcing me to do anything. This is part of what is dividing the Church: people are bitter for whatever reason. Either they have been wronged by someone in a particular church or there was a misunderstanding or for whatever reason they get offended. I’m not saying don’t search out doctrine or don’t take everything with a grain of salt. All I’m saying is don’t judge something without completely searching it out.
I have many people I know involved with ihop KC. A friend of mine just came back from studying there. My entire church believes in their ministry. Yes, there are a lot of things I don’t agree with in the ministry or my church, but you’re never going to find a church that’s perfect for everyone.
I think that you’re passing judgment on them and that’s sad. I’m sorry you had a bad experience. I did with my church at a point in time too, but from my perspective (this is not truth, just what I perceive) it just sounds like you’re angry and are trying to get revenge in turning people away in your own frustrations. We are to go at things in love. If people go experience it and live it, that’s their choice. We can love on them and pray.
Also, I wasn’t ignored or shunned from anyone when I disagreed with some things. We talked about it and we agree to disagree. So whoever has had an experience with someone walking away or out of your life because you don’t agree with something their doing is either not telling the whole story or that individual person(s) are in a world of their own.
We’re made for love, no judgment, not condemnation, not shame. Reiterating, I haven’t had a person coming from ihop be that way to anyone in my experience, even though I don’t agree with some things they do.
I agree with u guys .I dont see what are they doing wrong in your comments? what are the biblical issues ,what do thy teach that is not right? the holy spirit ? the prophecy? I mean what is it so bad about them that you dont write it clearly? Did they fooooorce you to fast? What is all that about visitations to the third heaven? visions or dreams? I dont feel you are explaining your self that much . MONEY? what are they doing wrong as far as I know is a school, a mission base ,and free conferences , I dont see manipulation involve or at least when I have been there. I will really appreciate if you express yourself better because I want to go there and some people send me this web page to see what you guys are writing about it ,and honestly it doesnt convince me ,there is no facts here,just a bunch of phrases unfinished with leaves you clueless of what is going on
Mr. Former IHOP Leader:
Tell me what you are doing now? I am curious to how God is blessing you. Curious of how he is moving on you and promoting you?
Yep…I wanna hear a testimony on how is taking you to the next level and above after your wrote your piece on IHOP.
I am serious. Let’s hear it.
ann, if you want to know about any ministry: type in
name of church, abused by
name of pastor, abused by
name of church, people’s negative feedback
name of pastor, people’s negative feedback
name of church, controversial articles
name of pastor, controversial articles
awhile read over 40 hours of ihop abuses, get unbrainwashed and think for yourself. how much is God, Jesus, Holy Spirit talked aboutf, will they go through the Bible, completely (example: you could have been born in the foursquare and assembly of god movements and they would have NEVER gone through the bible completely once). The people are supporting the pastor’s philanthropic dreams/lifestyled, your giving money to support his lifestyle, his empire, his dreams HIS KINGDOM TO HIMSELF. How much money goes to helping of the poor, fatherless, widow, orphan, stranger, single parents and their children, follow money trail. ORDER his 501c3 and see what he owns, and worth and how much money goes to help people. How much property does he own, building kingdom to himself. Is the staff spiritual vampires, spiritual cannibals and habitual liars? If the church isn’t doing social, charity, humanity, education, then they’re a business and self-serving. YOU’RE NOT JUDGING FRUIT. Creating conference junkies, glory hogs and fire bugs, bunch of emotional idiots who will wake up one day and found out they gave their life, time and money to an empty regime. GET UNBRAINWASHED AND THINK FOR YOURSELF. Cult has a complete and utter disdain for correction. I’ll send you a definition of a cult I asked from a very gifted apostolic, they’ll pray for you to die and curse you with cancer if you go to correct. “Breaking Christian Curses by Dennis Cramer”, Churches That Abuse by Ron Enroth go to his site, go to Rick Ross site and read church abuse, Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by David Johnson and Jeff Van Vonderan, Toxic Faith by Stephen Arterburn, Don’t Call Me Brother by Austin Miles and his second book also, I have five pages of books on church abuse. A lot of the people who report church abuse do not know each other, they each have a different story. Know M. Bickle has been corrected to no avail.
I have heard from a former IHOP leader, she didnt fast as much and stepped back from a few other things that she was pulled in to an office and asked to go to Canada for help because the school was not capable of helping her with a demon that they said was pulling her away from activities. Also if she opted out of Canada there was another place in Texas she could choose to go to.
What does any leader know about the re education camps in Toronto, Canada and Texas? Honestly is this true? Was any student asked to go to a different, place to have them re-focus their attention back where the school wanted it?
Firefly, this exact same thing happened to a friend of mine and I can give you his number if you want to confirm it. They wanted to send him to the Toronto Airport church where the revival broke out to get him delivered (when in truth he would probably have become more infested). Yes and there was also a Texas option BUT he had to go at his own expense!! It also happened to a woman named Stephanie, who wrote her testimony and it is posed on this blog. They do not tollerate anyone with a questioning mind at IHOP.
You know in July of 2011 my friend got back from YWAM and Lou Engle was a speaker in his 5 week trip there. When he got back he was talking about The Call that Lou Engle talked about. I started praying about going with a group of 6 of us. I was the only one that money was provided for, so I went to The Call Detroit 11-11-11 by myself. This was a huge thing for me, my first trip by myself and the first time I was really relying on God to keep me safe. I think it was so excited and God did rock me while I was there and some amazing things were done. How ever I went in as well with the mind set and friends who were texting me checking on me reminding me to use my discernment very heavily.
While there IHOPU was plugged and I remembered telling my self I am not going to that school. Also there were a bunch of people there from Canada and there was a point in time in the 24 hour fast prayer that we were asked to pray for the border of Canada and the US that the it be a more friendly border between the two. Ok while praying for that a Canadian women stopped praying for for that and started praying over me with another women, which was kinda weird for me. I do believe that God gives gifts in the spirits and I have been given a gift of speaking in tongues, HOWEVER, the Bible does share on how to use the gifts wisely that you are given. Me being new to this and these Canadian women praying over me in tongues made me uncomfortable. The main lady praying over me just kept saying in English, that I would be a huge piece in this generation bringing God back to this country. As I was telling my friends this they reminded me of my discernment. As well as the IHOPU being plugged they plugged the Nazirite Vow as well.
When I left to head home I was on a high and we did so much in the 24 hours of being there they dont prepare you for when you head home. I was go go go and at home I was back in reality, no fasting or constant prayer. I was sitting at home and went to I decided I was going to do the Nazirite vow, look at IHOPU so that i could hit that high I had at The Call. While doing the Nazirite Vow I got really sick I could actually go through with it about 3 weeks, it was bad….
Any who, I actually came a crossed Stephanie’s story which is the one I posed about above, and I was dismayed at that was being said so I was doing some research and came acrossed your blog. I was very confused at first. I was going to go to IHOPU and I have friends who are enrolled and are trying to enroll and it all looks so amazing from the outside. These storied are taking me back to know that I was that close to joining this and I can see how I was being drawn in.
Since The Call I have just felt uneasy with specific people in my college group and have pulled away a little but sure why and sense backing off a little I feel less gosh I’m not sure I can explain it, I feel better almost. And yes I am still under spiritual war fare but I think that is part of being a Christian, and the attacks are not as intense as they were before I stepped aside. Its hard to explain it. But I am glad to see things that I have been going through somethings that others have been through. I knew something was different after The Call and i couldn’t put my finger on what it was. And trying to tell my Christian friends what I was going though no one really could understand, if that makes sense. Alot of what I have read makes sense and I can relate to aspects that have happened and I will defiantly keep following this blog. Now I am just trying to remove thoughts and understandings that were spoken over me or that I have heard or seen, and put what God actually want heard, seen in replace.
Also is it possible to get your friends email and talk to him a little about his experience?
Firefly85:
Relax. Stop all the analysis. You’re learning. It takes time to figure out how, when and where you fit. IHOP is not for everyone. The Call in Detroit was intense and the mandate on IHOP may put un-necessary pressure of those who feel they need to promote.
You’re fine. Stop all the confusion with all your thinking. Participate in those areas that excite you or are your passion. Get with those you are comfortable with. Have fun and make friends and walk in love. Avoid those who turn you off. You will never like everyone. I don’t!
I am still hearing some bizarre “cult” stories but then I have a few myself so I tend to listen to the complaints. I plan on going there soon to train up fore-runners. This is my assignment. Anybody attempts to boot camp my butt for a demon they can’t handle will find my Holy Ghost foot up their ……you know what!
LOL David you made me laugh! And Thank you for your advise
You people dabbling with talking to the NY Times are tools of the devil. I rebuke you. You got something to vent, then do it here. You are worthless trash if you even talk to a newspaper who is bent on destroying our Lord and every good thing in this country. The NY Times is communist propaganda. They are pro-Islam and hate Christ. They are pure evil.
The level of immaturity of some of you stinkin brats who attend IHOP makes me vomit. You had better clear out by the time I am there because I will toss you a country mile. No boot camp. I’ll just plain clear you out!
Ok Im glad that you gave me some advise, but rebuking in love is one thing BUT rebuking and being unloving is another. When you rebuke some one out the love its to help build them up and help them walk closer to God and not rebuke them with unkind and hateful. God wants us to show love with our actions and words. Honestly, do you think that this last comment is out of love? Do you think this last comment is honoring to God?!?
Firefly85:
The post was not to you. It was regarding a post further up the road by a complete idiot who is recruiting IHOP brats to go belly ache to the NY Times.
I am willing to draw a line at this point. You can complain in house on this website all you want but you don’t go to the devils camp and make friends.
There is love and there is order pal. You lack the ability to know the difference. I am likely 30 years older than you and a lot further down the road so get over the cry baby stuff..
Yes…you have to root out that kind of trouble. Run em right out. They are free to whine and file legitimate complaints with us here. Complain in the camp. Not out.
Do you think you can get that inside your mind? There is love and there is order. Jesus understood the difference when He ran the money changers out. Do you?
OK first of all what does your age have to do with anything? Im near 30 and your 60 so? Yes I understand that there is Love and that there is order, How ever which is the best way to show Gods love? Is it not the end goal and why we are on this planet to share Gods love ? Do you really honestly think that you are going to bring people to Christ with rough and tumble order? Our main Goal is to bring people to Christ is it not? Please tell me how many people you know came to Christ through order? People come to Christ through love and showing His love, whether or not they choose to take what they want to say to a paper, whos to say what is right. The only person who can honestly judge them and their decision is God himself.
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you–who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4:12
Matthew 7
Judging Others
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
This is my last comment to you. Ever. The post on those consorting with the devil and the NY Times was not to you but as the new big mouth wise guy on the block you wanna take me on. You’re way over your head. You’re mind is unstable son. Relax, take your ADH meds and do something simple besides trying to think.
Order has to do with discipline. When IHOP students are recruiting others to attack IHOP thru the NY Times, then you run them out. You expel them. This kind of rebellion has to meet discipline. It’s not about your little concept of love. It’s about keeping law and order in the house. You are mixing topics, which doesn’t surprise me cuz your mind is mixed up.
I judge those inside the church because Paul commands me too. Read
1 Corinthians 5:12. It is sinners I do not judge but God does. However, saint are to be judged as was the boy who lived and was sexually involved with his mother. You pervert and twist scripture. Maybe you should leave IHOP. Try something else.
I am all done with you. Have a nice life.
To David, actually the NY times gave a very positive review of IHOP for your info. It always amazes me that the people who come on this blog and are “pro ihop” make the rudest comments…… says something to me!
Please heed the notice on the top of the page: NOTE: Nasty and / or name calling comments will be deleted. You are free to express your views without malice. If you don’t like what’s written here you are free to start your own blog!
Firefly…. I will send you a private email later on today!
Truth Speaker:
I saw the article in the NY Times. I believe it was a couple years ago? I am thinking summer 2009 but not sure?
The individual who is recruiting for them now is after this time frame. Look above. It’s in the 2011 year.
I will not defend the NY Times. I said my peace but yes, I am aware of their article, however I do not agree with your assessment. They have one objective. They are run by the Illuminati but that sort of thing is far over your head.
I do support your “ventilation” blog site but will continue to shame those who go outside the camp to expose their offense, guilt, shame or whatever they pick up at IHOP.
Sounds like Bickle needs to practice what he preaches. He claims there is a 3 tier program in God’s Kingdom 1.) calling; 2.) training; 3.) commissioning. Seems like Mike has some in leadership who’ve been commissioned before they completed training? I doubt all these stories are made up.
Not sure I’d put me in the pro-IHOP Ms. Pre-sumptuous. Touche on your rude allegation. Cry babies get spanked!
David, yes I was talking about the 2011 article. I actually spoke personally to the reporter.
It is not your job to shame, correct or spank people David. That’s God’s job and he is well able. People in glass houses you know….. and you have no idea what is or is not above my head.
Wicked people listen to and believe wicked reports. Proverbs 29:8, 12 4:24 19:28. Hosea 7:3. Is 33:15. A fool gets involved in a thing that is not his matter, like picking up a dog by the ears. If you have an ought against someone go to them. Follow scripture! IHOP is not perfect. Mike has a specific vision that he believes is from God. He is going for it! It has greatly helped and confirmed much in my life with Jesus. May you BUILD something and not partner with the Accuser of the Brethren. Many of you seem easily offended, even vindictive. Seek God more diligently. Diane Bickle has a real estate business. She should make money. Leaders in the Church that rule well are worthy of double honor. Mike lives and dresses simply, even frugally. He is devoted and longing for the reward that Jesus will bring at His coming. May we all do so!
Fasting, Prayer, Giving and the Sermon of the Mount and All of Scripture are necessary for maturity, not for salvation, which is in Jesus!
endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com is no longer available.
The authors have deleted this blog.
Unfortunately Levi, they are teaching false doctrine… that’s the problem here. We are discerning truth from falsehood here and this site has helped many who have been damaged by the cultic mind control that goes on in IHOP and places like it.
Yes, I’m aware the endtimespropheticwords is no longer available. It’s too bad they deleted it, as it had tons of research and resources on it.
Its funny people think IHOP-KC is a cult when even Mike Bickle has a whole sermon on how to discern if somewhere’s a cult or not! Like some people noted, there is no perfect church. There are some places that are complete cults because there’s hardly anything scriptural about them, but there’s always bound to be differences in interpretations of the bible in the church. Because a church has a few misconceptions doesn’t make them a cult in my opinion. At the end of the day we’ll all see which of our so called doctrines are right in heaven, and God always judges the heart behind every action. The whole of IHOP-KC to me, are seeking the Lord from a good heart, and want nothing but to see Jesus glorified in the earth. Having a few errors in doctrines doesn’t make them a cult. There’s hardly any church/ministry u search for in google these days where u can’t find some bad reports about. There’s always the ‘accusers of the brethren’ that satan is using to disunite the body of Christ.
Last time I checked IHOP was NOT a church :)
I have two family members who are involved with IHOP KC. One is still living in Glenview and attending IHOPU. The other has recently left due to being called elsewhere.
In my conversations with them, many of my concerns regarding IHOP KC have been confirmed. I will list two, and would appreciate any feedback given.
First, the phrase “God offends the mind to reveal/expose the heart.” This concerns me due to the lack of scriptural basis for its usage, as well as the manner in which it is used. According to my family members, the scriptural basis for this comes from John 6:35-71, but is especially focused on Jesus’ assertion that the Jews were offended. Firstly, this is the only reference that is given. Secondly, within the context of the chapter, it is clear that those that were offended were not true believers. All references to God offending people in the Bible pertain to non-believers. See, biblegateway.com for a quick search.
Next, the way that people seem to see Mike Bickle. The words they use to describe him, and the fact that they seem awed by him concern me. I have known many pastors in my life, short as it might be, and I think highly of many of them. However, I have never spoken of them as though in awe of them and their greatness. I do not, and have never ascribed to hero worship that isn’t directed at my wonderful Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ. So, when I hear a person speaking in awe of a human being, it worries me. Additionally, I was informed, that you DO NOT just walk up to Mike Bickle and talk to him. It is an unspoken rule at IHOP. I’m sorry, but that is a definite problem for me. I know for a fact, that I can just walk up to my pastor and talk to him without breaking some unspoken rule. He is my pastor, but he is also a man, not a god.
I know these thoughts are incomplete, but I would still like a reaction from anyone who is willing. Especially one of the IHOP defenders. I would like my concerns to be assuaged.
Hi Johnny, I think you nailed a couple of issues that many people have with IHOP. I’m sure that there are those who will try to defend these points, but there is no BIBLICAL defense, IMO.
The term “God offends the mind to reveal/expose the heart.” was coined by John Wimber, founder of the Vineyard, many years ago and they are still using it. I will email you a pdf file of the article where he talks about it.
I’m a youth pastor in Toronto at a fairly conservative church, and have seen a recent trend among the youth and young adults of my church towards attending services and conferences at the Toronto Airport Church (newly renamed “Catch The Fire” Church). In doing due diligence in following up with these students I have grown concerned about the sensationalism that is prevalent at the Toronto Airport Church services. This has caused me to research more online, and it has only been in the last 3 days that I have learned about the connections between the Toronto Airport Church, IHOP, and even YWAM. I have even attended an evening at the Fresh Wind Conference held there, where Jaye Thomas from IHOP was the guest speaker. I took limited notes throughout the evening on things that raised concerns for me … but I would be very grateful if someone would perhaps give a brief list of false doctrines that are taught at IHOP and the Toronto Airport Church. It would certainly give me a starting point of conversation with the students for whom I am feeling more and more protective recently. Thank you in advance!
Mike, The dangers there are numerous. I don’t know anywhere that has the dangers bulletpointed… You will probably had to read and make your own. Here is an article from my archives that will give you good info…. make sure you read the comments: Part 1: http://truthspeaker.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/beware-the-teachings-of-ihop-kc-new-age-contemplative-spirituality/ and Part 2: http://truthspeaker.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/is-ihop-a-cult/
this site has a good explaination of IHOP: http://standupforthetruth.com/2012/01/what-about-ihop-part-ii/
Here’s a site with a few personal testimonies about the Toronto movement: http://www.scribd.com/doc/28159890/Deliverance-From-Toronto-Curse
Both of these places practice contemplative prayer a form of ancient meditation that causes the practicioner to go inward to find “god”.
Here’s a video where these movements have “joined streams” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT7yNZ93lcE
Hope this helps!
This is so funny to me. Any big church movement is going to have problems. It is made up if man. I am sorry for those of you who have felt like they were sucked into somethig at IHOP. But IHOP is one of the most powerful fruit that is what Jesus tells us to do. I have been at IHOP for about 2 months. Some of my best friends here have been here for about 2 – 8 years. All I see here is the fruit of God and it is amazing. I see lives changed daily. I see people give there lives to Jesus and people healed. I personally have grown so much by being a part of the community. There will be mistakes made. There will be people who are overtaken by pride and sin. We all battle with these things. It is clearly not the work of God to talk trash on an organization that is bearing so much fruit. I have had my experiences at other churches and could post a blog about them. But God does not want division in his bride. Every teaching I have heard here has been backed up by scripture. I have been reading daily several books of the bible and I have yet to find scripture that makes me feel like ihop is a cult. To those of you who are posting negative things can you really say you have not seen people have there lives changed for the better. Yes I know some things at IHOP that are not biblical and certain situations should have been handled differently but if you can point me to a church this big where you will not find any problems at all I will drop all I have and go there because that place would have to be heaven. Open your eyes. Get out and meet people at ihop. There is clearly more good fruit here. Stop holding onto Hirt and learn to forgive because Jesus says him self that if you have Unforgiveness in your heart you will not enter the kingdom of God. I am so very sorry that you have felt so hurt that you needed to post it to the world. I would assume that some very bad things did happen to you to take it to this extreme of a level. But open your eyes. Forgive people and seek God above all things. Do not divide the bride of Christ or discourage someone from taking a step which could completely change their life for the better.
First of all I want to say that everything that has breath, let it PRAISE THE LORD”. The way I see it is if IHOP is offering something good and better than what the world has to offer and it brings in the people for deliverence who’s minds, will and emotions are tainted by the world, it could only be a good thing…And for those who don’t understand the purpose of fasting, Jesus told his disciples,”this one only comes out through prayer and fasting” and you can actually hear God better when you fast… As for the IHop prayer room, I think everyone needs to learn how to worship the Lord, because thats what we were made for and thats what we will be doing in heaven…
Since I have been watching IHOP prayer room online, my prayer life and worship life and dedication to God has increased like never before and it brings soooo much peace in to my house….It helps you get alone with God…You should try it…..Until you experience God intimately for yourself you cannot know what he has for you….This is better than church and I am not under pressure by a man, a pastor or a church or worried about what someone indoctorinates me with or the church gossip….There is freedom…..This keeps the postive experience and I don’t have to worry about what everyone else is doing…Its just me and the Lord….Whenever my daughter is off the streets from using drugs, I would like to see her go to IHOP and get deliverence…Almost anything is better than where she is….Anyway the kids that are there now could be doing something else… Not of God(just something to think about)…. I just pray for God to use them…. God Bless you All
Trish… are you saying that one can only experience God intimately with IHOP? The Holy Spirit lives inside of me and I have an intimate experience with God daily… without IHOP. Deliverence comes from true repentance…. breaking agreemwent with sin. and the unfortunate result of IHOP is so much false doctrine and brain washing.
ok, i’ve never been to IHOP KC only watched the live feeds from the prayer room and read and listened to some of the info provided on their website. Speaking as a musician and worshipper myself and just from the time that I’ve spent worshiping along with the prayer room worship I can say I’ve seen and heard nothing but positive Biblical praise and worship. Having grown up in a denominational cult I am very leary of most religious organizations. I feel that I’ve been blessed with discernment and can spot a cult, phoney, and scam a mile away. I do not see the signs of a cult and i don’t feel that IHOP KC is a cult, phoney or a scam. I feel that they are Biblically sound and are true worshippers. I’ve been in a worshipping church and been to many worship conferences for well over 30 years now, and I do not see error in IHOP KC’s teachings and how the prayer room is being administered.
On the issue with fasting…… it’s a choice. God gives us good sense to know when we need to back off…. how can you blame the church when you are the one in control of what you put in your mouth.For instance I have blood sugar issues and low iron issues, i know that if i fast for even 24 hours i am putting my health in harms way so therefore I will fast but I will do it in a way as to not make myself sick. God can do what He plans to do regardless of what we do or don’t eat. It’s the attitude of the heart and the mind, the fasting is just a channel that the Lord uses to reach your heart and mind.
As far as the money with the pastor….. It really irritates me when people feel that pastors/ministers should live in a shack with threadbare clothing from Goodwill……Our ministers should have a nice house and clothes and have extra to help others with. My pastor has a very nice house, nice clothes and a nice car. He gives to others all the time, of his money, this time and his knowledge. Because he is faithful with what has been given to him the Lord continues to doubly bless him. It’s like the wine that Jesus multiplied at the wedding feast….. the more that’s given out the more is available to give out.
I can understand backlash and harsh criticism if you feel a wrongs been done. But it appears to me to be a realiation based on hurt and persceived wrongs. I would suggest that if you feel IHOP is on the wrong path that this blog maybe should be used to pray that the Lord with intervene, guide and direct them down the right path. Our God is capable of changing the hearts and minds of anyone, so how about let Him do his job and you pray?
Angie, I think the view on IHOP would be much different from the outside vs the inside. The interns are basically cut off from their friends and family on the outside. There is a group mentality going on… they are all young people, wanting to do what is right and be accepted by the rest of the group. As far as the teachings, I think if you took some time to really study what is being taught there you would find some very weird ideas being promoted.
granted i’m on the outside looking in but I do have a friend that is a part of IHOPKC and he (and his wife/kids) has hardly been cut off from his friends and family, as a matter of fact he makes regular trips home and ministers in my church. He is in frequent communication with his family and several of my fellow church family has made trips up to KC to fellowship with IHOP. and while it’s true I haven’t read everything that IHOP publishes what I have read seems to be biblically sound. If I come across anything questionable then I will probably question some of their docturine but so far I don’t agree with your stance. Just what are you considering “weird” anyway. In some churches the lifting of hands would be considered weird, or speaking in tongues….. this is not weird in my eyes and is biblically sound in my opinion.
Angie, Guess what? I think almost anything can be classified as a cult these days if we are not following Jesus and studying scriptures for ourselves….I think peoples opinions of certain groups like IHOP KC are because they couldn’t run the show themselves or had other issues they didn’t want to deal with….As for seclusion, my son is involved in teen challange and he has limited time with family and freinds …. But it is so they can help redirect him back to the Lord without the outside influences or the struggle of the world pressures, while teaching him to handle reallife situations ….And begin his life again.
I visited IHOP when they first started and I believe they went through maturity and correction on many of the issues that were there before…
I just see them as a growing and learning ministry….
And without IHOP KC where would these teens be today….And how would they learn to worship…Anyone can read their Bible,but without the worship and power of God present and the impartation of the Holy Spirit….You got nothin…
i couldn’t agree more Trish.
sounds like someone has an offense going….it was all your choice…nobody makes you want to fit in…and feel accepted…if you aren’t secure in the Lord…the devil will surely take it and run with it…we wrestle not with flesh and blood…i have benefited greatly from some of the teaching and the 24/7 worship…and intercession….my fire was lit due to the ministry of IHOP…Lord as always expose the lies and bring YOUR Truth….
Amen to that….
Hey…I’m an Ihop dad, and for a long time, my wife and I discussed selling all and moving to KC. We’ve survived church cultures that are have been utterly stifling; in fact, I took a 12-year moratorium from any “Holy Ghost stuff”. Went down to visit–determined not to get sucked in. Made it to the back row when The Father started a tickle fight. I started screaming “God Still lovrs me!” Since then, I have been amazed at the depth, the breadth, the hright and the length of God’s love. I got no beef against the place. Watch a lot there. Feel like I eas saved before, but not, I’m in the light of His love. It’s been an excellent 4 years. I say, “go Ihop-KC.”
I got the the left foot of fellowship from the IHOP about six years ago. I had never even taken Intro, it never really appealed to me, I just went there for the worship. I was falsely accused. Now, I know they say everyone in prison claims to be innocent, but some actually are. When I say falsely accused, I mean with all my foibles what they accused me of was the furthest thing from my mind.
I was also involved in the Way International way back when, before the IHOP. I wasn’t in any formal programs there, either, but I went to “twig” regularly and I visited the headquarters a number of times. Of course, the Way was torn apart by scandal at the top level.
Even so, I notice similarities in the two groups. First off, you could get saved with the Way, you could learn to speak in tongues, you were encouraged to dig into your Bible like no other church I’ve been around. At the Rock of Ages festival in the summer, the Holy Spirit was powerfully manifest in community in faith, hope and love.
Anyone who wants very clean distinctions about every group as to whether it is of God or not will miss the mark. We have this treasure in earthen vessels and just look at all the turmoil the churches established by Paul went through. For me, there were a lot of valuable takeaways with The Way (puns just have a way of showing up, don’t they?), but I’ve moved on and found Jesus is everywhere.
There seemed to be control and conformity issues with the IHOP when I was there. They seem to be rabid about the 666, too (draw two equilateral triangles, turn one upside and lay it on top of the other. You’ve drawn exactly six straight lines and you should end up with a figure surrounded by six points with a six-sided figure in the middle). Don’t shoot the messenger, the star of Kabbalah wasn’t my idea. To whom was the Balfour Declaration addressed? Whose money went into forming that country? I could go on and on but let this suffice: And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. Mark 11:14 So, when was Biblical Israel to be reconstituted? Like, never? In 2012, there is no such thing as Biblical Israel!
So, some funky doctrines over there. Mike once called Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a terrorist. I don’t know, maybe, but if you start looking into false flag terrorism…coming from America, in support of Israel, the pot calls the kettle black.
Here’s my real takeaway from the IHOP: Harp and Bowl has huge potential. Much better if the structure of churches transform from some two hour event on Sunday (the McChurch I go to is only one hour) to prolonged open sanctuary worship where the congregants spend more time directly engaging God relative to the amount of time they spend being spoon fed by the pastor- who will have his own human limitations. Why can’t people have jobs and go into the prayer room when they are off? At the IHOP KC, staffers would make this pledge (I don’t remember what it’s called), and there was a real culture, seemingly elitist, regarding these in the in group and everyone else not signed on. Me, I loved the worship. Being broke all the time, some of the doctrines…eeeewwwwww….
Hopefully at some point there will be some outpouring that fills Arrowhead Stadium. Yea rather, hopefully harp and bowl and elements of the IHOP lifestyle will spread all over the world transforming local churches filling them with the glory of the Lord: Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house. 2Chronicles 7:1
Thank Carl… i appreciate your comments and agree wihg you about Israel. I forms a lot if their end time doctrine at IHOP.
The prayer room was funny. At times, it would be glowing, when we talk about the glory of the Lord, people need to deal with this, there is this very real “substance” sometimes called the Holy Spirit (as distinct from the indwelling presence that comes with the new birth), sometimes called the anointing, sometimes called the manifest presence of God. IT IS REAL, PEOPLE, we need to know it and know how to please it.
But then, it would be time for the Israel set (two hours of prayer for Israel), and things would changes. It became dark, eery, the worship seemed like shamanism.
I’m just going to say this real plain, here. From what I can see from politics and history and the Bible, the manner it is that the Illuminati leads the church around by the nose is through the Rothschild-sponsored state of Israel. If we’re hurtling toward epic wars and financial collapse, it’s at least in part got to do with delivering the church from false doctrines and the prideful, and racist heart issues that allow us to harbor them.
Whew! Sorry about using your blog for a soap box. ;-)
The bible calls us to take our offenses and issues with others to them in private and deal with them in love and PRIVATE. If you have such strong opinions and issues with IHOP why not try to contact someone there and address the issues instead of bad mouthing them on the internet?
As for me, I’m a proud member of the prayer movement and the house of prayer that I am a part of has strong ties to IHOP-KC. I’ve personally met many of their leaders and I can say, from experience that they are amazing people and the Lord has used them to touch many lives. IHOP certainly is not perfect, no ministry is, but they are a house of abandoned lovers of Jesus who face criticism that has no biblical basis and is solely based out of hear-say or one person’s biased telling of their experiences. I know people who are currently at IHOP and love it and I know plenty of people who were there at one time and when they expressed desire to leave were told that they would be missed but no one ever tried to make them stay. And they still have strong, loving friendships with missionaries at IHOP and leaders there too.
And speaking from experience, when IHOP or any other expression of the prayer movement calls a corporate fast it is ALWAYS voluntary, that is made explicitly clear. As for those who feel pressured to “please leaders, or fit in” by fasting, that is not due to the pressure of anyone other than themselves. I am often unable to fast due to a blood sugar disorder and have been told by many leaders that I need to be careful with fasting and use wisdom, which often means not fasting even when my house of prayer is doing a corporate fast.
All that to say, I really hope that the body of Christ learns to handle our offenses as the Bible calls us to. I won’t try to defend IHOP or the prayer movement because it’s not my place, only the Lord can defend us, but I will say that I hope that some day you will see IHOP for what it really is, an amazing ministry.
I strongly believe that God is using them. If they were teaching wrong God wouldn’t move. They must be doing something right!
Proud Intercessory Missionary: People I know of who have tried to do that at IHOP were told that they were demon possessed and needed to go away at their own expense to get delivered. Sometimes it is tried and just doesn’t work.
and btw, there is no such thing in the BIBLE as an intercessory missionary. We are told to GO INTO ALL THE WORLD AND MAKE DISCIPLES. That is partly what is wrong with IHOP.
The Lord said, “I looked for a man among them who will stand before Me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.” Ezekiel 22:30
From my understanding, those at IHOP who give their lives to intercession and prayer are those who are standing in the gap on behalf of their land and on behalf of the nations of the earth. I received that same commission on my own, outside of the “prayer movement.” Prayer is essential in the Kingdom of God. Read the book of Daniel! He gave his life to prayer, experienced so much persecution for it but the Lord used him mightily and encountered him repeatedly. One of the most life changing passages I have ever read is the one where Daniel gave himself to fasting and prayer for 21 days and the Lord immediately sent an angel in response. When we pray, He moves! What a privilege we have in being those who can speak to the God of the universe and He listens and acts when we ask Him to!
I think the people at IHOP have had that same realization, that the best way we can impact the world is through prayer. One can preach the ears off a generation but unless there is a shift in their mindset and a heart change, it is ineffective. Only the Lord can turn hearts and we can partner with Him in that through prayer.
If you were feeling like you were required to fast, that is your fault for putting someone in the place of God in your life. I walked away from a church a few years ago and was told that I had experienced spiritual abuse, etc. but after spending time focusing on forgiveness (because no, I don’t want to stay offended, I want to be released from whatever funk I received from that experience) I realized that it was ME who had put them in the position of control, not them. I so desperately wanted to please them and appear radical in their eyes that I placed on myself all of these expectations that I thought they had of me. I placed them in the role of god in my life by seeking their approval in every decision I made, that was wrong and that was my fault. I am now pursuing fear of the Lord instead of the fear of man because it is the beginning of wisdom. I would advise you to do the same. Sometimes the Lord shows us negative patterns in a ministry as strategy for prayer, not to tear down their ministry.
Obviously, since you have this blog you carry an offended heart, Jesus tells us in the new testament that we probably will be offended, but it is up to us in how we deal with it. We can allow offense become bitterness or we can let the offense teach us about the Lord’s heart and turn it into prayer for our former leaders. I hope you choose the latter.
There is a brilliant documentary film out by a man named Porter Speakman called With God On Our Side. If we truly are growing in Christ, love and compassion ought to be enough to begin the unraveling of Christian Zionism (Matthew 12:48-50).
If this stays up on Youtube, I encourage everyone to give it one minute, the Israeli-Arab pastor talking about his experiences with American Christian Zionists at the 56:30 mark:
I’m sorry, but if you are going to call people out by name, you need to let others know who you are-you have no credibility unless you do. I believe it’s the Holy Spirits job to judge-each one of us is called to test what we hear and respond personally. They should know we are Christians by our love, not hate.
Pastor MacDonald
Boston, MA
Oh to be a critic… Nothing in this world is easier…
May God have mercy on You!
I disagree with You,but I don’t hate you and I’ll not jugde you, like you did to us!
I pray that You encounter God Himself and I aso pray that all unity, may one day be restored and they’ll know we are Christians by our love
Don’t let your heart grow cold…
God bless you
“I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people.” Ephesians 1:17-18
Peace
I too was a part of IHOP. I left my family, and my teaching job in N Cal, and took my 15 yr old son, and moved to Grandview to attend the Forerunner School of Ministry. I’m not going to make this very long, but the thing I would like is to be in touch with some others….of the IHOP fallout. I was 36 when I moved to join ihop. I had been a single mom since, and I felt a call, or something. I did make the move in faith with good intentions. I thought it would be great for my son.
Long story short, I was involved for about 2 and 1/2 yrs. Though I began to see problems and to disagree with various ideas and doctrines within my 1st semester at the school.
I could not afford, like others to homeschool my 9th grade boy, and plus I had been a public school teacher for years in Cal. I actually believe in publis school. So my son went to Grandview High, and was introduced to all sorts of drugs. By the time I knew the extent of his involvement he was already a heroin addict. By the time I got my boy into a good rehab, he was 20, and I had left ihop already a couple yrs prior. He overdosed and died 2 weeks after rehab.
Here are some things that troubled my son: leaders at the ihop youth group told him flattly that his dad had not made it to heaven. His dad had died of a heroin overdose when my son was 13. Also, he just moved to a new state, new school, and had no family but me, his mom. It was such a tough time for him, and my experience was that ihop people were only interested in their own ministies, and their own God-encounters. My boy and went to hear Mike Bickle in San Francisco when he was 12, and he met Mike, and I met Mike, and Mike encouraged us to catch the vision and move on out there. Well after my son died I never received one note of condolence from Mike Bickle or any of ihop leadership. That hurt. I thought I heard God’s call, so I came in faith. I sacrificed to go, we had a garage sale and sold everything we couldn’t fit in our car. It would have at least been ni)ce to hear that he (Mike was sorry my son died
I have a couple corrections to make on my previous post. Not easy typing on phone and have trouble editing my writing as I can’t get back to see what I’ve written.
When I said “I’ve been single since,” I didn’t finish my thought and it may sound as though I’ve been single since leaving for ihop. Not the case. I was single when I had my son at age 21, and never married until my boy was 18. I raised him totally involved in church..a Vineyard Chrisian Fellowship for many yrs. I went to school when he was little and became a teacher so I could support my son.
If anyone wants to know, my name is no secret. I’m Crystal and my boy was Josh. By the time he died in 2010 I had been going to a Methodist church of 18,000 members (COR), the biggest Methodist church in the country, and the pastor, Adam Hamilton called me 2 days after my boy’s death. They values community and loving and caring about each other.
It was just weird to me to not hear from any leaders, any of my teachers at ihop. I received love and support from many of my past church leaders, church friends, and teachers I had worked with in Cal, teachers who had Josh i in their classes, and friends of mine from grade school even. I found it sad and strange that ihop leaders didn’t show any concern or interest.
Crystal
Crystal,
I am so sorry for your loss. I can’t even imagine the grief you must feel over losing your son.
I’m not, however, surprised, to hear that no one from IHOP contacted you or offered you condolenses. I’ve been a part of and watched the various communities associated with Mike Bickle churches and they have a reputation of having horrible community. It seems to attract and/or breed narcisistic people who are only concerned with themselves.
I remember the impression I had when I was associated, was people so eager for a word or an impartation, those in their way to the front of the line would be trampled. It’s so far from the Spirit of the Lord, isn’t it? Kinda like Black Friday in the prayer room.
It seems more and more people are coming forward with their sorrowful stories. Yours ranks up their amongst the most egregious. Again, I am so sorry for your loss.
Crystal… that is heartbreaking! I’m so sorry to hear what you’ve been through. Where are you now? I’m glad you found a community of believers to support you! There was a recent story in the papers that Micah Moore has not had anyone from IHOP visit him since he’s been in jail… guess it’s their MO.
My experience is that most people leave that horrific place devastated, crushed and confused! I’d love to know specifically the divorce (or murder) rate of young couples married there…b/c I personally know dozens (including Mike Bickle’s sister and several former staff members) whose marriages couldn’t handle the “experience” of that place…even though they were Prophesied over that they would have these wonderful marriages and Mega-Ministries!!!! Inspect the fruit!!! It is the most amazing experiment in mind manipulation!!! (I can hear Bickle on his deathbed…”Just Kidding! I was just curious how far I could manipulate the lemmings!”) It’s just a revolving door of young adults who keep financially feeding the machine (IHOPU is like $6,000 a semester…for an unaccredited “university”…SERIOUSLY?)…look at the leaders and past leaders still associated with it making money off the machine… one example is Bob Hartley who hires these IHOP students at relatively low wages to work at his commercial office cleaning business… it’s sick!
Want to know about the $$$….
The Corporation that owns all the stuff is called Friends of the Bridegroom, Inc. of which Mike Bickle is President… Look it up in Business Entity Search on the Missouri Secretary of State website at: http://www.sos.mo.gov and you can see all the public documents, Annual Reports, Corporate Officers etc., then look up Friends of the Bridegroom, Inc. on the Jackson County Missouri Real Estate Tax Site to see how much they own at http://www.jacksongov.org You’ll find Diane Bickle’s Glad Heart Realty Building at 724 Main Street is owned by Friends of the Bridegroom, Inc. (No impropriety there!!!) Also look up Bickle on the Jackson County Missouri Real Estate Tax site to see how much property the Bickle Family Owns… Mike, Diane, Paul & Luke… very interesting if you want to know how this money machine works….Million$$$$ in real estate owned and controlled, not by an elected Board of Directors, but by Mike Bickle!!!!! The Not-for-Profit world is very lucrative indeed!!!!!
thanks mac…. i’ve looked that up in the past… but will do it again!
Undeniably believe that that you said. Your favorite reason seemed to
be on the internet the easiest thing to keep in mind of.
I say to you, I certainly get annoyed whilst folks consider issues that they plainly don’t know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and defined out the entire thing with no need side effect , folks can take a signal. Will probably be back to get more. Thanks
Katy Mc Dowell: I ran youth programs for the county for years and would travail for this generation. I dealt with street kids who were from the county that could not stabilize anywhere, suicidal, cutters, trafficked etc,.. Young people are falling away as they see the hypocrisy of the lukewarm commercial church,I felt led to go out there and pray and went to their One Thing conference. When I went to the One Thing conference I cried as after 15 years of praying for this generation. This is not a cult, these young people are there because they love the Lord and can leave anytime they want. They choose to stay there because they want to and love to worship God. Another thing I noticed is that it is huge, they help with orphans, missions, human trafficking and a ton of other stuff. Having a big ministry is not easy and to have 24 hour continuous worship for over 13 years is a miracle, but what I really appreciate is Mike Bickles heart for the youth. He lives a very simple life and teaches so. Infact he lives in a duplex with his mother inlaw next door in a bad neighborhood, drives a simple Toyota Corolla and gives millions of dollars away, I thank God for Mike Bickle and yes his wife is blessed as the Bible states you will be when you honor God and sacrifice your life for Him. But they are far from extravagant and the people I know that are involved have integritymI have friends who have deep integrity and a deep relationship with the Lord that I trust. They are older and have years in the Lord. Its too bad when you are blessed and doing a good work in the so called Body of Christ that people will gossip and slander you, we know who is the author of that. But if there is anything wrong I pray for conviction and deliverance as we will all stand before God alone and be judged by what we did in this life. I love Mike Bickle, his wife, ministry and really appreciate this ministry. No one knows the price that has been paid but the leader who always gets attacked by people who are normally doing nothing but criticize.
There is nothing substantive in these allegations by alleged “former leaders.” It is very cowardly and dubious to make such allegations without revealing your name. After all, if you were telling the truth, then you would have nothing to hide. You gave no concrete examples of any cult activity but made blanket and ambiguous allegations, presumably by design. You sound like a bitter person with an ax to grind.
Sorry….people who cant back accusations with their name do not hold much water for me.
I recently became aware of IHOP-KC. I admit I don’t know much about the organization. There are several red flags when Christian leaders are not subject to the correction of a godly unbiased board of directors. It’s called humble wisdom vs pride. Christian men are not above making terrible mistakes. Also, the buyer and/or follower must beware. It’s always been interesting to me that the anointing and gifts that are on great servants of God do not keep them from the great slips as well. The battle starts when they are alone in their private office. They tend to forget they are human. Spiritual wickedness and powers are only too willing to bring just the right thought and temptation. I’ve always admired Billy Graham, Kathryn Kuhlman and many others that seemed to stay out of public disasters. They treated people with love and demonstrated to the world that one can be a good example. But they were not perfect!
truthspeaker, I have been informed that IHOP was in trouble with the government for telling people and actually encouraging them to get on government support to make their living. Is this true?
Sage, I haven’t heard of this as of yet, do you have any proof?
Wow. I suppose I can see some of this as being true. Having many very well-balanced friends that are part of iHopKC, they are quick to admit that it draws some very emotionally imbalanced individuals by the very nature of the thing, but at the same time they see those people for what they are, and they themselves have benefited greatly from iHop’s ministry, worship, & teaching, & have also left for long periods of time & found no problem “fitting in” to even well-structured Mega-Churches & in some cases traditional churches as well. I’ve seen them grow in maturity of faith, & there experience there has been nothing but good for them. I don’t know: I wonder if it has far more to do with the individual than the organization. Anyone dying to please others & be accepted would fall into the same trap no matter what sort of environment they found themselves in.
I had never heard about ihop until the alledged murder of Bethany Deaton. Sort of the old, “It’s all fun and games until someone gets murdered.” Of course it’s irresponsible for an adult to encourage and lend validity to an ill formed enthusiasm for a personal annihilation that young people are known to feel. Whether it is a drug dealer promising oblivion in a dose or the man preaching a Miramax Armageddon as deciphered from The Book, the same calculation is at play — My wealth of experience can wear your innocence out and then you’re mine until you’re not.
Is it really so difficult to not take advantage in personal relationships when you hold the power? It seems some people gather strength as the deception grows but at the same time they come to more clearly confront the totality of the lies told as they undergo examination by others. They glimpse the end of it all and begin to act in ways not suggested by their teachings. The objective is to keep the enterprise going and not so much about the fates of the poor souls. And if there isn’t love, bad ju-ju come.
Jose, What are you trying to say? If you had a problem with one of the leaders, why didn’t you confront him or her and ask for clarification. If you did that and they told you “yours is not to question why, yours is only to do and die” then, I would suggest you stayed too long in the organization. Instead of discussing my innocence being worn maybe its your spiritual maturity not being used. Have a nice day.
Truth speaker, I have no proof. I was wandering if you or any one had heard about this. I was told by someone who has a close connection to someone in IHOP. I can’t say it’s true since it’s hear say, but I wondered when a friend of mine who is heavily involved there insisted I should get WIC even when I told her I didn’t need it. If you find out there is any truth to it let me know. If it’s not true also! Blessings!
Sage, I have not heard this before. Let me know if you get more proof. tks
What I’ve seen recently from the IHOP-KC is extremely edifying. The praise is marvelous and so uplifting that I’m thinking I have already passed to the other side.
Folks, I think you all better get ready for greater intrusion by the government and progressives. We know that God is in control (Ps 75) and He sets one above another. It time we all, who believe, need to pull together and support each other. Who cares if someone did this or that. It doesn’t matter. Principalities and powers love the dissension. Don’t be part of the problem- be part of the solution. Blessings on you all,
Roger….. just wondering if Heaven is really invading Earth as you think why would the powers and principalities and the government be getting stronger shouldn’t it be the opposite?
Good stuff here! Dr. John Noe addresses some of this in his teaching series, Unraveling the End (available around the interwebs). We’ve got all these historic, postmillennial Christian songs being sung by premillennialists. Eschatology is so confused.
Roger makes a comment about progressives, and I agree, but it wasn’t the progressives who used 9/11 to launch Oded Yinon’s world tour of wars of aggression, it was the IHOP’s beloved Zionists and Neocons. And, ‘no’, bearded men don’t deliver toys down chimneys and bearded men don’t sit in Afghanistan blowing up NYC skycrapers (reader: if you don’t EVEN know what World Trade Center 7 is, consider educating yourself before making judgments). The church is simply absent on some of the most critical issues of our day: go here and start with General Wesley Clark http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89815&highlight=oded+yinon
Otherwise, good if the worship at the IHOP is flourishing, I haven’t been watching the webstream. That’s just good and credit where credit is due.
Truthspeaker, I don’t know if you can leave this post, but I won’t debate anyone here. If anyone wants to debate we can take it elsewhere.
Thanks Carl….. good points!
Truthspeaker, are you suggesting that Christians should rise up and take back government? It seems Jesus was against that idea. We are not of this world. The powers of darkness are increasing because it was prophesied. What do you mean “heaven invading earth” But we can enter into His presence and that’s what I was referring to. John 15 encourages us to abide in Him. Does it not say that where sin abounds grace (power) does much more abound. Greater is He that is in us. We are victorious. Be encouraged brother it’s not important that sin and principalities are increasing only that we can take them by the authority Jesus has given us. Yes, we pray thy kingdom come but it hasn’t happened yet. Endeavor to persevere.
Carl, Isn’t the same progressive wicked spirits in those of the past still alive in many today? Blessings on you all, R
no Roger I’m not suggesting that Christians take back the government…. not at all. and I’m not sure where you got that idea from based on what I wrote. it was you who said the worship was so phenomenal that you felt like you were going to the other side…….. so I said if that is the case thenthat is heaven invading Earth and it should be getting brighter and brighter and not the darkness taking over. and since I do not believe we are in the end times I do not believe the world is getting darker and darker. if you read the Bible the way it was written the end times were absolutely in the 1st century.
Peter said that “In the LAST DAYS God will pour out his Spirit”. when was the spirit poured out? in the first century.
Hebrews 1:1 says “In THESE last days” God has spoken to us through his Son”
A proper reading of the scriputres in context shows this clearly. therefore I believe that we are in the time of the advancing kingdom. In Daniel 2 he says “31 “Your Majesty looked, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. 32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.
We know that his rock is the revelation that Jesus is the Messiah…. “Upon THIS ROCK” I will build my church. That rock has been spreading since the time of Jesus Christ in the first century.
no Roger I’m not suggesting that Christians take back the government…. not at all. and I’m not sure where you got that idea from. it was you who said the worship was so phenomenal that you felt like you were going to the other side…….. so I said if that is the case that is heaven invading Earth then it should be getting brighter and brighter and not the darkness taking over. and since I do not believe we are in the end times I do not believe the world is getting darker and darker. if you read the Bible the way it was written the end times were absolutely in the 1st century.
The idea (passed to the other side) I got from God’s word. Live in the Spirit, walk in the Spirit. It is getting brighter and brighter for me. When Moses came down from the mountain don’t you think He was “in the Spirit”.
On the other hand, Most people agree as I do that the world’s political, economic and spiritual condition is getting much worse as compared to even the1950′s and 60s. “As in the days of Noah so shall it be in the coming of the son of man”
So don’t you believe we can enter into His presence now? So many songs are written in His presence is joy forever more. You should try it some time. Then, why would IHOP spend so much emphasis on worshipping in His presence?? Things are getting better for me and my house, hearing God’s voice, a sense of His presence, faith and trusting Him for my welfare. Also, If you look to the circumstances then, it may appear things are getting worse externally. Earthquake intensities have increased, the instability of the nations, even in our country more rationalization of wickedness, even from “Christians” inside the church. Things are getting worse in some ways too. As to the Joel 2:28 passage, In the last days, God is pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh now. This is definitely happening now and the evidence is among His people. Tongues, healings, prophesies, words, it is marvelous what the Father is doing. To deny this would be to stick your head in the sand.
Again I point you to the word which says when sin abounds grace (power) does much more abound. Faith says He is our source for all things. It’s all good. Blessings on you all, Great discussion. Roger
Roger, if it is getting brighter and brighter for you, think of how many others it is also getting brighter for and those who are being saved every day! I absolutely believe we enter his presence NOW! I don’t know where you are getting the idea that I don’t think that.
You are not going back far enough in history to see the world. How about the dark ages? or the inquisiton? It’s much better now than it was then. and you can’t just look at america! Also, you can’t take world events and make them fit into the bible. you must let the scriptures interpret themselves!
The apostle Peter declared that the day of pentecost was the “Last days” and fulfilled the prophecy of Joel … you need to study the bible and see for yourself what the BIBLE says the last days were the last days of! The gifts have continued, but we are not in the last days now! Look at all the signs in light of the first century…. even the book of Revelation says Jesus was coming soon, at the door, near etc. It had to be for the people reading the letters that were written. Remember the Bible was not written TO you, but for you. You must read it in light of it’s historical evidence, just like any other book. The letters Paul wrote were not written to US, but to people living in that 1st century.
Also, in the book of Acts the apostle James says the the rebuilding of David’s tabernacle was fulfilled in the first century with the entrance of the Gentiles into the kingdom of God…. it is not being fulfilled today because of prayer and worship going on 24 hours a day. See what the word of God says! (Acts 15) To think otherwise is bad hermeneutics.
Truthspeaker, Why are you hiding? Why don’t you come out of the closet and say who you are. Give us your name. I’m sorry that your philosophy will not allow you to believe God’s word is supernatural and written for all peoples and all ages. I guess, ?? God wasn’t able to give us a clear message for us today? umm, very troubling!
The real question “truthseeker”, and I hope you are, can you agree to disagree with someone older and wiser than you and fellowship with him as a brother even if your personal philosophy (theory) of God’s word does not agree. The important point here is that one day we will be present with Him in His kingdom. We will have our glorified bodies and enjoying His good things forever. We need to pull together, worship together for it is God who lives in us, works and is glorified through us.
Blessings on you, Roger
Roger, who I am is evident for anyone who is a regular on this blog. I keep my life private to protect my family, as there have been threats. Again, I dont’ know where you are getting the idea that I dont’ think God’s word is supernatural?? Written FOR all people of all ages YES! Written TO them? NO! Otherwise you’d be waiting for Timothy to come and see you soon, no?
I do agree to disagree. I think that is also evident to anyone who reads this blog. I allow all opinions here as long as they are not rudely put.
Let me add you dont’ know me, nor how old I am, so I find your statement rather funny. How do you know I am not older and wiser than you? I belive God’s kingdom age is now and I am already living in it. I hope you are too!
Let me respond to your comment about the “last days” As you know, if you are really a student of the Bible, there are many references to the last days.
Most of them refer to the time directly before the millennium, not the first century: Heb 1, Ezek 38:8, 16, Numbers 24:14, Deut 4:30, Dan 2:28, Job 19:25, Gen 49:1, Isa 2:1, John 12:48 and a number of others. These scriptures have been cited for years to give light on the end times. There is no argument here as to their meaning. Last days being from the time of Jesus to the end- the rapture and the tribulation. 2000 years, in the grand scheme of things, is nothing in the light of eternity.
The letters to this church and that church were indeed letters to these churches but, were also teaching principles we need for living today under the life in the Spirit. They are all inspired of God and profitable for reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness TODAY (even Mark 16) As you grow older in the Lord you will learn to listen to the voice of God and rightly divide His words for all ages and times. I’m just giving back to you your own comments for analysis. Thank you, Sorry to hear you have been threatened. If you were living in the first century you would also be threatened but today it is becoming more extended due to the condition of the world. Good discussion, Blessings on you, Roger
Truthspeaker?? I read some of the information on the IHOP cult from ?
I don’t know what they mean by contemplative prayer but, I would ask you, How do you pray? Do you not have images of heaven, God moving by His spirit, the blessings of answered prayer? We do repeat certain phrases, but it certainly does not mean we have entered into vain repetitions. I think what is referred to is praying the rosary and other ritualistic praying formalities.
As to metatation, Joshua 1:8 tells us to meditate on your word. What does that mean to you? I meditate on His word as often as I can.
What about praying in the Spirit, which is commanded for his sons to do. Is that not turning off the physical mind and speaking the mind of the Spirit. I think brother, you are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. I commend you for examining, testing, and judging different biblical beliefs but allow the Spirit of God through the word of God to show you what is correct- You may learn something. The Spirit filled life is exciting!
Roger…. most all the verses cited have to do with Israel…. I recommend the book Identifying The Last Days by Don Preston….. I’ve actuallt done extensive study on eschatology and that is what changed my views. The end times have to do with the old covenant age. not the end of the world and thete is no rapture as we have been taught…. study and God will show you!
why do you insist that i am young and not saved very long?
Just another angry persona and individuals who tear down what they do not understand. Where is Jesus in the midst of these “informative” insights? I have more confidence in the Holy Spirit to keep me than I do in the devil to deceive me. How big is your God?
Sage,
The report that IHOP encourages people to get on government assistance is absolutely NOT true. I was at Ihop in 2012 and it was even addressed at an All-staff meeting (I believe it was the March or April one) in which staff at IHOP and those working with the ministry were explicitly told NOT to go on government assistance – Daniel Lim said it explicitly and more or less said if community were having trouble raising support to that degree, then there is nothing wrong with entering into a “season of tentmaking” to provide for your family. that IHOP was there to help the local community and not drain local resources when those who are capable of working can do so
I hope this clears up any false reports you may have heard.
Unfortunately, it is very unpopular to seek after God with all your heart in this day and age! You are called radical and in a cult!
David’s wife became barren when she despised David in His heart when he danced before The Lord.
Slander, gossip are totally against the Word of God! Obviously we can all look in our concordance and find the references!
If you are that concerned about a movement of God, that promotes abandon of your own lusts of the flesh, seeking hard after God and one that stirs you to go read the Word for yourself.
Please let us know how you have grown close to The Lord and been seeking after the things of Him with all you heart, soul and mind since you left!
Please talk about your freedoms, not slamming the ministry. No one is perfect and sin is everywhere, because of this fallen world! So, slamming Mike Bickle and keeping him accountable for everyone’s behavior that walks through the door is insane and wrong!
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. You are responsible for yourself, don’t leave it up to anyone else.
Hear a message, seek the word and pray so you hear from God!!!
I speak blessing over those wo follow hard after the hard of God! Devoting their life to Jesus!
Thank you Samora, Yes, seeking after God and God seeking after us is the story of the active New Testament believer (us). It’s not only about Israel is it? Although much of the emphasis is on Israel. The word is alive and the Spirit of God ministers to us daily, hourly, as we are open to the voice of the Lord. We are His people, we have been grafted in and God looks at us as His chosen ones. Does God have more love for Israel than us? Is the word of God only for Israel not us? Some would say so but, the truth is we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works. And we are walking in obedience. Blessings to all, Roger
While I didn’t read every last negative comment, it seems to me that every church out there could be on the list of abusive to somebody who doesn’t like it. Please people maybe we should be more concerned for ourselves and whether we are loving all people especially those of the household of faith. I am amazed at so many who say they “know”. and yet to me just sound judgmental. And then act as though they know the “perfect church”.
. Maybe you could post the location for these people that are never ‘off’. Or is that only your opinion? mmmm
I personally think this kind of blog is very necessary. You can look to yourself and use all the scriptures you can cut n paste together to try and shut the mouths of those who speak out… but know this… Jesus spoke out… Paul spoke out, Timmothy spoke out. when you see a wolf in amongst the sheep, should you not cry “WOLF” and hope the sheep will run from it?
These salaries are are quite humble for the responsibilities they hold IMHO.
As for the NY Times, they are antichrist, and get used to it. Consider the article they recently disseminated about a “study” that proves how born again christians have a lower IQ.
Remember Nancy, it’s not God telling you the church is perfect. We are still subject to the flesh. The church (each individual) is working out their own salvation with fear and trembling. B. Reason has a good point. Some of the troubled souls who work at the NY Times and criticize Christians go to church. The church is a hospital and many Judas’s go there to archive information, put down Christians because they basically hate God. They recite studies and intellectuals who “know more” than God himself. ha ha Remember, God himself has blinded their minds that they can not see the truth. SAD I wonder how the rich young ruler is feeling today (Luke 16)? He was the brightest and the best. He rose to the top. All good investments, the right friends of influence and he forgot the beggar on his porch. The NY Times is still praising men like the rich man. Still placing flowers on his grave, still honoring his investment advice. We should all live each day with our purpose to glorify God, listen to His voice, be obedient and bless the brothers and sisters.
Blessings on you all,
Roger Drake,B .Reason,Nancy,Bean,Samora,G , R, I need help over here my name is Jacob and my 21years old son went on conference in BETHEL church in Redding CA which is a branch of IHOP as I understand . After he came back home he become to rise voice at me which never ever happened before .I should mention that he and 4 other our children are been born again . before he went there he was an example to look up to in the church and in family. He is the youngest in the family but he knows bible better then any one in the family basically if you ask him any verse where its written he will tell you in a second . speaking shortly he was a son just to dream for. all our family go to solid bible church . Once my son said ; daddy I am so happy and we are so blessed to have church like ours , after he came back from that conference he began to criticize pastor very hard that he has no passion compare with those he heard there .He lost his job because he said if I need money I just need to pray and God will give me as much as I ask Then he dropped of from college and said :I don’t need this Im anointed prophet of God which he was announcing with ;passion; I told him not to go any more to that church because I learned that they are big on teaching and preaching on miracles and wanders , he started to believe in that fake miracles like golden dust appeared in that church diamonds falling from celling feathers flying in the church — it is all God glory appearance.. He become to be very arrogant When he yells and screams at me he calls it holly wrath He started to hear voices .First time voice said : don’t be afraid to speak in tongues: so he started. And was following those voices commands after an till he started to hear cursing words and at times voices said “kill your self” He was very confused about that and was looking for ways how not to hear them .And he found out that when he pray, or sing songs or read bible then he is fine . So his resolution to problem was “if I will be in place where I can pray 24/7 it will solve problem and its Gods will .My view on that is opposite “if it started after you came back from there may be it wise just to forget about that church and all what they teach???” So it became almost impossible to take it any more and he was saying I need to go to Kansas city to join IHOP and meet and eventually get married to the girl he found in that church .I tried my best to talk him out of this but it didn’t work .So we prayed and agreed to put this matter in Gods hands like : I will buy you plane ticket (he doesn’t have any money because he lost his job do to his new believes ) So this is how we put this matter to God ” if when you come to Kansas city you find in one week place to live, you find job, you find that girl propose her and fi she will say “yes” then we all will see it as Gods hand in it and I will repent that I was wrong about all your new believes but on other hand if all that will not happened you will need to repent and forget about that “church and its teachings” “Agree??” he answered YES”
So I bought him ticket for next day to fly there .
And at this evening he started to experience horrible pain in his stomach then fever started and he was crying and praying to God to help him to get rid of this pain but it didn’t go away it was going on for 4-5 hours he started to repent saying ” Lord I don’t want anything don’t want that “gift of speaking tongues forgive me for disobeying my parents to go there ( BETHEL) second time without permission please relieve me from this pain” we convinced him to go to hospital . he got appendices and it was removed with surgery. praise Lord !!! next day being in the hospital told me “papa I have peace in my head I hear no voices”!! I said ” praise Lord He heard your prayer of repentance and He didn’t let you go to Kansas to join IHOP– for some reason and I see in it answer to this matter ” after he came home he started to go again to IHOP site “just to listen to songs saying how can this songs be wrong they are so good!!!! and I have to agree songs are very good and he started to justify IHOP and BETHEL and voices started to come back This tells me all: “repent in your fouls believes – receive relieve from bad spirits attacks but when you go back to the same thing you open doors to be influenced by them again its so obvious but sadly enough he still justifying those IHOPs Now it s been 2 and a half year of struggle he is diagnosed with schizophrenia so sad And I noticed if we do not touch those churches in our conversation he is doing ok but his agenda that he is prophet he need to go preach gospel daily and if he doesn’t– he has no joy and has depression By my own researches he has spiritual schizophrenia which means “split mind” He is born again but been deceived Basically he believes in what he had before and also he started believe what is not true ___this is where mind splits in two ( double minded) meds call it chemical dis balance . and as I see from testimonies many of those passionate young Christians who fall in this cult are experience very same symptoms of spiritual schizophrenia which IHOP leaders calls possession by demons But truth is they are not possessed but just open to demonic influences due to IHOPs teaching and believes in what is not true (miracles and wanders daily) So any one who can give me any advise how to help my son in this case please write Anxiously waiting . Jacob . Sorry English is my second language
Yakov, Bless you brother, Don’t worry brother God has everything under control. Firstly, This has nothing to do with IHOP or any church. It is, as you identified, spiritual wickedness, powers and principalities of darkness. You need to become trained in dealing with Satanic powers. There could also be some medical issues present here and I would recommend you take your son to the doctor and get some basic tests. Go to the Christian Book Store and get a book by Charles Kraft, I GIVE YOU AUTHORITY, Published by CHOSEN. The church today seems to be very weak and untrained in the authority of the believer. God’s word is the ultimate authority and Charles Kraft does an excellent and thorough job of training in this area. Why is it difficult to understand that Satanic powers are focused on the true church (true believers). If “the god of this world” can find a way to effectively attack God’s people WHY WOULD HE NOT USE IT. And many in the body of Christ have no clue in how to deal with these attacks. Get the book, study the scripture, listen to the Spirit of God and then expect the miracle you need. Then focus on helping others in the body who are experiencing similar problems.
dear roger by Gods grace i know how to deal with satanic powers –it is repentance and i personally experienced it . when i lived in the sin and i believed in the satanic lie that it is not a sin ( just had a romantic thoughts in my head about another woman for some time — God allowed deadly terminal illness to touch my family and doctors said : this is it we cannot do any thing – very same evening God opened my eyes to my sin i ran to my wife — repented in all my sinful thoughts asked for forgiveness and guess what happened—-deadly illness and every symptom of it was gone next morning and after already 15 years no single symptom of it) –so i believe in the miracle through repentance and it is biblical
And you said that God is in control of everything and i believe that he is in control of every satanic spirit too until we open our harts to the lie of Satan like i happened to believe in lie —this is how we open door to satan and God let satan to terrorize our bodies because we substitute truth by lie
as i looked through those “miracles ” in bethel church —- ” golden cloud “appearance as glory of god — its just louphgeble because i did very samemeracle at my home in garage while i was painting my car with golgen flakes in paint — you just need to do some proper light effects but sadly enauph people in that church including my son believed in that lie You may ask why it doesnt happenes with other people at the same time if its manufactured lie — answer is —read bible and it has all answers. Remember that verse were it said ” do you think that those on whom tower fell were the greatest siners I say no— but if you will not repent —you will perish likewise ” God desides where when and whom to touch my prayers that he would be merciful to my son and open his eyes sooner that he would be fruitfull in his life like he was once before sorry roger i didnt get any good help from your answer. my God bless you to see only HIS truth
Yakov, Bless you brother. If you KNOW how to deal with satanic issues why did you ask for help?? Let’s look at the word of God. Eph 6: teaches that we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood but against satanic powers. When you become a believer the battle increases (INCREASES) BECAUSE YOU ARE NOW A THREAT to satanic territory. The battle becomes more fierce. John 10:10 the thief comes to destroy you. God comes to bring life and that life is in His son. Luke 10:19 A MARVELOUS PROMISE OF GOD SAYS “I GIVE UNTO YOU POWER TO TREAD ON SERPENTS AND OVER ALL THE WORK OF THE ENEMY AND NOTHING WILL HURT YOU”. God is only in control of your life IF you allow Him to be in control. Deut 18 says you must choose the good and not the bad. It is a matter of choice. OPINIONS YOU HAVE HEARD will not solve your problems. You must get into God’s word. If you choose the bad you yield to satanic forces. Did you know satan is able to do miracles too?? So if you’re using miracles as your proof that you are on the right road then, you are listening to a lie.
Your teaching seems very scattered. I encourage you brother to read the word of God get into a Bible believing fellowship. I pray you get rid of all the theory and speculative teaching and get into the truth of God’s word.
Blessings on you,